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#1
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He changed the post description. He now says the card is trimmed
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#2
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stand up guy
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#3
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That's more than I can say for some guys on the board who push trimmed cards in non-SGC, PSA, Beckett holders and claim they "just don't want to break them out because there's too much risk."
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#4
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Quote:
A while back I bought a very high end t206 HOFer with a rare back from a "well respected" broker. The card sat in a BVG flip. Once I received it, in person, it looked a bit short to me. I tried to to cross it to SGC and they would not give it the minimum requested grade of 80 (6) (a down grade), so it was returned to me in the BVG flip. I brought it to several shows and many t206 old timers and some auction houses all said the same thing - "it must stay in this holder", which I took as code that the card was trimmed (none directly said it was trimmed). I grew to despise the card but I could not bring myself to try to sell it without disclosing my experiences - even though it sat plain as day in a BVG flip- which would have resulted in me taking a massive loss. So I ended up contacting the broker who did accept my offer to repurchase it for $2500 less than I bought it from him for. I was happy to take the loss and glad to be rid of that card. All that said, I could have consigned it to an eBay or smaller auction house or sold it myself and merely advertised it as a BVG graded card.... Would that have been wrong? Caveat emptor? |
#5
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#6
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It would be interesting to see if that broker re-offered it and at what price and with what description. |
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At a $2,500 discount, he can sub it to PWCC and not think twice about it.
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#8
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Broker
Is it still not up to us as the buyers to inspect these cards ? I bought a Chappie Charles BVG 7 at a National knowing full well that this was a $600 gamble. The gamble did not payoff. I cracked it and re-subbed as my experience when sending with the slab was not good. Live and learn. This is not a business of collectors selling to collectors anymore. You have to be the one that polices your buys.
__________________
Adam Goldenberg |
#9
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I dont blame anyone but myself -- I am a big boy buying big boy cards, so it is what it is. That's my perspective as buyer. As a seller (and rarely sell anything), I have a different perspective; I like to sleep at night and would rather make friends not enemies in this industry. That said, like another poster stated - would it have been "wrong" to have just sent the card to PWCC or Probstein or some smaller AH and had them simply list and sell it as what it is "a _____ in a BVG flip"? By giving it over to an AH I am effectively laundering the card ethically, as its now the AH selling and advertising it, not me. I fought with this a long time, because this was a 5-figure card, but ultimately could not bring myself to pawn the thing off to an AH, so I just took the loss and walked. I guess its a dog eat dog world, and thats fine. However, I dont like the taste of dog.
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#10
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#11
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If you know something is bad, you can't reoffer it as authentic or unaltered no matter what its 'pedigree.' However, I don't doubt that when a card is in a holder it's harder to see all the qualities and details and many sellers aren't experts and reasonably defer to graders and TPAs.
Though, in the long run, it's good for your business if people know you're the type of seller who will point out when TPAs and graders have made mistakes on items you are selling. My belief is, even if an item is in a holder or comes with a LOA (such as with an autograph or piece of memorabilia), the seller is responsible to the buyer for the authenticity and correct identification. Other than obviously blatant errors, the condition grade on a holdered card is a different thing, as that's a matter of opinion and the seller can't properly grade a card when it's in a holder. Some alteration no doubt will be hidden in a holder too, so that can also be a different situation. I remember a number of years ago, an eBay seller was offering a rare and desirable "Leaf 'Hermansk'" error card (Hermanski missing a letter)." It was more than obviously simply a label error, as anyone with more than zero eyes saw that the card said "Hermanski" not "Hermansk." But the seller, who had to know the card was not the error, was selling it as the error card because that's what the label said. This is a blatant example of where the seller has to say what the item really is and point out that the grader or authenticator is in error. Last edited by drcy; 02-06-2018 at 01:41 PM. |
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__________________
Please visit my website at http://t206.monkberry.com/index.html |
#13
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In which of these situations, if any, do I need to dislose?
1. I buy a raw card I suspect is trimmed. I think if I bury it within a submission I can get it through. A TPG grades it. 2. I buy a PSA 8. I don't like the looks of it, suspect strongly it's trimmed. I put it back out for sale. 3. I buy an SGC 92. I submit it to PSA in the holder to cross, PSA rejects it for evidence of trimming. I put it back out for sale. 4. I buy an SGC 88. I submit it to PSA in the holder to cross. PSA declines on min. grade grounds. I put it back out for sale. Someone then asks me, did you try to cross it.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-06-2018 at 03:30 PM. |
#14
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I agree to disclose, but I see the first 2 as more grey than
black and white. I guess I am jaded when it comes to TPGs and trimmed cards. I have had too many cards kicked. Many that I bought in the 60s and early 70s, either pulled from packs or bought mail order. I don't buy that those guys were trimming .05 to .25 cards when most people weren't really condition conscience. My experience with TPGs is that if they err on an opinion in trimmed or not, that 99% of the time they are not grading a good card and 1% missing a trimmed card. |
#15
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I don't see a reason to disclose 2. I am not a market player, my personal opinion is not material. Grading history on the other hand is an objective fact. On the other hand, I've never seen anyone disclose unfavorable grading history, as far as I recall.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-06-2018 at 06:43 PM. |
#16
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__________________
MY EBAY STORE; If you see something you Like PM me. If you bought off me and were happy let others know; if you bought off me and weren't satisfied for whatever reason let me know.. |
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