Recent Ebay experience question

[campyfan39]

Thanks in advance for responses.
I recently purchased a card for about $30 listed as "EX/MT Great". When it arrived I noticed it had the players number written on the back in pencil in two places.

I went back an looked a the listing and yes it was visible in the picture of the back of the card. However, there was no mention of the writing anywhere in the description.

Obviously it on me for not looking at the photos closely enough but I think it is a pretty sneaky thing to do and there is no way a card with writing on it should be listed as EX/MT.
So what do you think: Is this dishonest? Should I return it?

Thanks!

[swarmee]

Tough one. I would personally eat it, and check the photos better next time. If you only planned to get the card graded/resell it, then returning it may be better in that case, if the seller offers refunds.

[campyfan39]

I should add that the card normally sells for about 50 so I got a good price. Also I have no intentions of grading or reselling.
It was a 54 Red Heart Billy Martin.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Thanks in advance for responses.
I recently purchased a card for about $30 listed as "EX/MT Great". When it arrived I noticed it had the players number written on the back in pencil in two places.

I went back an looked a the listing and yes it was visible in the picture of the back of the card. However, there was no mention of the writing anywhere in the description.

Obviously it on me for not looking at the photos closely enough but I think it is a pretty sneaky thing to do and there is no way a card with writing on it should be listed as EX/MT.
So what do you think: Is this dishonest? Should I return it?

Thanks!

Could have been an honest mistake not to mention in the description area....likely was as the scan showed the marks, so the seller was not making an attempt to hide this flaw. In cases of marks on the back, I have noticed many sellers grade a card for what it would grade w/o the marks and either mention or picture the flaw, kind of like PSA grades something like this with a qualifier at the grade it would be w/o the mark.

I would return it if I were you and leave it there as the flaw was pictured.

[ALR-bishop]

I do not pay much if any attention to how sellers "grade" their cards in their listings. I rely on the scans. If they provide a front and back scan and the card comes as advertised I keep it, even if I missed something that was there to see.

Many sellers say they take returns and if this one does, send it back if you are not happy with it

But if you are not going to grade it or resell it, and you got a good price, and the front looks good, maybe it is a keeper

And while I may take abuse for it, if it was my card and those numbers are in pencil, I would erase them since I don't sell cards

[JollyElm]

The fact the seller didn't mention at all that the card was written on tells you all you need to know. His plausible deniability will probably be, "Well, you can see the writing in the scan, so I did nothing wrong."

Anybody selling cards would be aware of that writing, so how could he possibly NOT include it in the description?? His omission is most certainly a deliberate attempt to be a slimeball.

[brob28]

I think you have the right to return the card if you choose, pictures or not, but I agree with other posters that depending on scarcity and price of the card you may want to keep it as is.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

The fact the seller didn't mention at all that the card was written on tells you all you need to know. His plausible deniability will probably be, "Well, you can see the writing in the scan, so I did nothing wrong."

Anybody selling cards would be aware of that writing, so how could he possibly NOT include it in the description?? His omission is most certainly a deliberate attempt to be a slimeball.

I completely disagree with everything Darren posted. These exact posts are why I hate eBay.

You admit that the seller had good pictures but because you were to lazy to take the time and look at them you should be able to inconvenience the seller. WOW just fricken wow. Maybe you got it $20 cheaper because the other bidder(s) took the time to actually look at the pictures.

Please put on your big boy pants keep the card and hopefully now you know why pictures are provided.

[hcv123]

Firstly I think there are a number of assumptions being thrown around about the sellers integrity and the buyers "inadequacy" that are stories created in the minds of the people posting them.

I agree that what has been posted on both sides of the discussion are all possibilities, but far from the only ones. Here is an additional one - The seller in good faith listed the card and didn't notice the writing. The buyer looked, but didn't notice the writing either.

Without additional dialogue or information to start assuming fault or "fair resolution" is jumping the gun. At this point it seems fair to "assume" shared responsibility - While it would have been clearer and easier for bidders if the writing were mentioned in the description - it wasn't. There was however a clear scan posted that bidders could look at closely and decide for themselves what condition the card was in and ask questions or bid accordingly.

I think the first relevant question is money aside - do you want the card? Based on your original post I am guessing the answer is no. If that is the case I encourage you to own your own oversight and ask the seller if they are open to refunding you. If not, chalk it up to experience, resell the card and forgive yourself for being imperfect (that should be the biggest mistake you make in your life). If you can live with the writing (or consider erasing it as Al suggested) then chalk it up to experience, keep the card and forgive yourself for being imperfect.

In either case - hope any of that helps and have a great day!

[campyfan39]

Thanks for the input. I am going to keep it.

I think the lesson here for me is don't buy something only looking at the pictures on my phone. I think the smallness of the screen caused me to miss the writing and that would not have happened on my pc.

I am going to wait a few days and look for other feedback for recent purchases. I actually remember seeing a few Red Hearts when they were listed that had this same writing on them, one was a Mantle. I didn't bid or watch any of them. However, when I was bored at a car dealership waiting I searched my phone for "ending soonest" and saw it with about 2 minutes left and bid in a hurry, only seeing the pics on my phone and mainly going off the listing off EXMT.

As for "putting on my big boy pants" Ben must have trouble with reading comprehension. In my original post I clearly took responsibility for not looking closely enough.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I think it was a mistake on your part and the seller's part, and I believe the two of you honestly just overlooked it. It's not like the seller was trying to hide anything because he did provide a clear, close up scan. I could see it being intentional if they didn't provide a back scan.

I've been guilty of doing the same thing as a buyer. I'm a set builder and I've been at shows filling holes in sets and pick several cards just glancing through them quickly, and notice once I get home it has writing on the back or something else I've missed. I don't think it was intentionally done by the seller. After all, they do have a return policy.

The bottom line is this. If you're happy with the card, keep it. If not, return it for a refund as stated in the seller's description.

[Econteachert205]

As a seller and a buyer I've had this happen. If it were me I'd send a very friendly message explaining you want the card and that you understand it's your mistake but that also asking if the seller noticed the writing due to the grade they gave it. I've had sellers volunteer to discount/partial refund/take back the card and it will at least show them to be more careful in the future.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Thanks for the input. I am going to keep it.

I think the lesson here for me is don't buy something only looking at the pictures on my phone. I think the smallness of the screen caused me to miss the writing and that would not have happened on my pc.

I am going to wait a few days and look for other feedback for recent purchases. I actually remember seeing a few Red Hearts when they were listed that had this same writing on them, one was a Mantle. I didn't bid or watch any of them. However, when I was bored at a car dealership waiting I searched my phone for "ending soonest" and saw it with about 2 minutes left and bid in a hurry, only seeing the pics on my phone and mainly going off the listing off EXMT.

As for "putting on my big boy pants" Ben must have trouble with reading comprehension. In my original post I clearly took responsibility for not looking closely enough.

I have no problem with reading comprehension. So if you took responsibility why are you on here asking if it is ok to return? Also if you have to come on here to ask I think you already knew the answer you just wanted someone to say it is ok to return it.

By the way I had more than 1 person PM me thanking me for my response in this thread because they wanted to say what I did but for some reason won't post it for everyone to see.

[Gr8Beldini]

When something like this happens, it is not fair to automatically assume that the seller is a slimeball. The numbers on the back are small; if he was breaking up a lot of cards to sell individually, this would be an easy flaw to miss. If you want your money back, drop him a line and ask about the misrepresentation. If he refuses to remedy the problem, then I would lean toward him being a slimeball. I doubt that will be the case though.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I completely disagree with everything Darren posted. These exact posts are why I hate eBay.

You admit that the seller had good pictures but because you were to lazy to take the time and look at them you should be able to inconvenience the seller. WOW just fricken wow. Maybe you got it $20 cheaper because the other bidder(s) took the time to actually look at the pictures.

Please put on your big boy pants keep the card and hopefully now you know why pictures are provided.

Time and time again, over and over, every single day, sellers on ebay are being slimeballs. It happens to me constantly. Trimmed cards, unseen creases, sending different cards then what was pictured in the auctions and on and on. Why in hell didn't this seller state that there was writing on this card????? The buyer missed it, so it clearly doesn't immediately jump out at you. The seller gave it his own grade, which means he examined the card, right? Again, why didn't he mention it anywhere in the description???? Because he's obviously being a douche. What are the chances he didn't notice the writing? Almost zero percent. Come on!!

[ALR-bishop]

I have never sold anything on ebay. I have a feedback rating of over 1600 transactions, all as a buyer. I guess I should feel fortunate that my experiences with sellers have not been as bad as Darren's.. Particularly since ebay changed their rules to put buyers in the virtual driver's seat, the vast majority of sellers I have dealt with have been honorable and fair people. On pre war here and on CU, most threads I see about ebay deal with horror stories about buyers.

This is not intended as any comment on the issue Chris has raised here

[JollyElm]

I apologize for sounding so angry, but it happens so often that it's driving me bananas!! And the apologists who come on to paint ebay as all rainbows and unicorns are ridiculous. I can only assume that the people posting such nonsense are ebay sellers, who only want to protect their own. Sorta like political operatives spinning their BS.

Since no one here knows the seller's motives, we are all just speculating on what he did or didn't do. But I can tell you without question that my version of events is far closer to reality than those that claim he did nothing wrong.

[campyfan39]

Thanks for everyone's opinions good and bad.

The story has a happy ending. The seller claims he didn't notice it but offered a refund of $7.50. I am fine with that.

I am sorry this thread went downhill. Net 54 is a fun place for me, an escape from the negativity of life.

My original intent was just to get opinions on the card and price and if people thought I should return it. I have about 2000 transactions on ebay with most of them as a card buyer the last 12 years. To my knowledge I have only returned a card once so I honestly was looking for feedback.

Happy Collecting!
Chris

[CobbSpikedMe]

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but I don't see it as so hard to believe the seller may have missed the marks in this case. After all, the buyer missed them too. And the seller isn't a total douchebag if he offered a refund of $7.50 due to the marks when he found out about them. If all parties are happy now, then no big deal anymore.

[Davino]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Time and time again, over and over, every single day, sellers on ebay are being slimeballs. It happens to me constantly. Trimmed cards, unseen creases, sending different cards then what was pictured in the auctions and on and on. Why in hell didn't this seller state that there was writing on this card????? The buyer missed it, so it clearly doesn't immediately jump out at you. The seller gave it his own grade, which means he examined the card, right? Again, why didn't he mention it anywhere in the description???? Because he's obviously being a douche. What are the chances he didn't notice the writing? Almost zero percent. Come on!!

I 100% agree. Ben is misguided.

[JollyElm]

I'll add a recent ebay experience for some background. I saw a '62 green tint in super shape that I wanted to buy as an upgrade. However, the photo made the card look too thin, so I sent the seller a question asking him if the card had been trimmed, because it sure looked it. Not completely obvious, but enough to make you wonder.

His answer to me was, "No, it's not trimmed. This card measures out perfectly. I measured it myself. It's fine."

So I buy the card and the moment I take it out of the envelope and put it on top of another card, it's so frickin' obvious it's been trimmed. Not only trimmed side to side, but top to bottom as well. So I contact the seller again, this time all pissed as hell and tell him, "Why in hell did you tell me this card measures out perfectly when it is so obviously a trim job?????!!!!!!!" His reply? "It DOES measure correctly. You're just a scam artist trying to steal from me. If the card is trimmed, you did it, so you can rip me off!! I'm going to report you to ebay!!"

Fast forward to me filing a report with ebay. I simply scanned the card on top of a ruler, showing how it was practically 1/8" short. I put that image next to the image he used in the auction to prove to ebay that nothing changed on the card--it certainly wasn't trimmed by me--from when he had it until I received it. I also cut and pasted his replies to my questions, saying he himself measured the card out, etc. Ebay took like 4 minutes to decide in my favor.

When I mentioned slimeballs earlier in this thread, it's people like this do_chebag I was referring to. He makes a scumbag move by purposefully selling a trimmed card. When it's brought to his attention, he blatantly lies about it and threatens to report ME to ebay. Just an absolute f-cking scumbag.

Some of you claim you don't run into these types of sellers. That is truly awesome, but don't think for a second these f-cknuts aren't out there in full force, trying to rip you and me off.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'll add a recent ebay experience for some background. I saw a '62 green tint in super shape that I wanted to buy as an upgrade. However, the photo made the card look too thin, so I sent the seller a question asking him if the card had been trimmed, because it sure looked it. Not completely obvious, but enough to make you wonder.

His answer to me was, "No, it's not trimmed. This card measures out perfectly. I measured it myself. It's fine."

So I buy the card and the moment I take it out of the envelope and put it on top of another card, it's so frickin' obvious it's been trimmed. Not only trimmed side to side, but top to bottom as well. So I contact the seller again, this time all pissed as hell and tell him, "Why in hell did you tell me this card measures out perfectly when it is so obviously a trim job?????!!!!!!!" His reply? "It DOES measure correctly. You're just a scam artist trying to steal from me. If the card is trimmed, you did it, so you can rip me off!! I'm going to report you to ebay!!"

Fast forward to me filing a report with ebay. I simply scanned the card on top of a ruler, showing how it was practically 1/8" short. I put that image next to the image he used in the auction to prove to ebay that nothing changed on the card--it certainly wasn't trimmed by me--from when he had it until I received it. I also cut and pasted his replies to my questions, saying he himself measured the card out, etc. Ebay took like 4 minutes to decide in my favor.

When I mentioned slimeballs earlier in this thread, it's people like this do_chebag I was referring to. He makes a scumbag move by purposefully selling a trimmed card. When it's brought to his attention, he blatantly lies about it and threatens to report ME to ebay. Just an absolute f-cking scumbag.

Some of you claim you don't run into these types of sellers. That is truly awesome, but don't think for a second these f-cknuts aren't out there in full force, trying to rip you and me off.

Darren, not to defend the seller in your example at all, because it was wrong to provide false information about the card, but I do not understand something. With as knowledgeable as you are about GT's, you probably know that some of them are notoriously cut short. (For exmaple, I have come across about dozen copies of the #117 Geiger GT that are short both ways). So based on your knowledge of 62 GTs, coupled with what you saw in the scan, and most importantly based on all of your past experiences with the less than truthful sellers you constantly seem to encounter, why would you just not use your browser's back button, move on, and save yourself all of this dramatic frustration??



I agree with you there are some less than credible sellers out there, but I avoid them like the plague(like others mentioned, I rely on the scans to assist my decision to buy or not buy)....thus, 95% of my transactions I am happy with.

I buy a lot more on ebay than what I sell....however, the few concerns I have had from buyers almost always stem from them either not reading the description AND/OR not looking at the scan. Despite the fact that I feel that a buyer who does not read the description or look at the scan should own their mistake, I gladly accept the card(s) back per ebay's return policy.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I don't understand why some people see a card that is short either one or both ways and automatically assume it's trimmed.

With a little bit of experience and a good loupe, it's easy to distinguish a factory cut from a non-factory cut.

A card can measure short and not be trimmed. Likewise, a card can measure just fine and still be trimmed.

If you look at a card that's short and automatically assume it's trimmed, then what do you think about the cards that are actually 1/8th of an inch oversized?

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If you look at a card that's short and automatically assume it's trimmed, then what do you think about the cards that are actually 1/8th of an inch oversized?

Must be a "big shot" selling it

[Exhibitman]

There are bad sellers on eBay. They are relatively few and far between. There are lots of unprofessional people with poor communications skills and bad due diligence habits. Those people are usually the ones who get complaints and they are usually negligent rather than malicious. I always assume that the seller made an honest mistake. My first communication is polite, formal and clear. If that doesn't work, then I get medieval on the now-proven scumbag.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Darren, not to defend the seller in your example at all, because it was wrong to provide false information about the card, but I do not understand something. With as knowledgeable as you are about GT's, you probably know that some of them are notoriously cut short. (For exmaple, I have come across about dozen copies of the #117 Geiger GT that are short both ways). So based on your knowledge of 62 GTs, coupled with what you saw in the scan, and most importantly based on all of your past experiences with the less than truthful sellers you constantly seem to encounter, why would you just not use your browser's back button, move on, and save yourself all of this dramatic frustration??



I agree with you there are some less than credible sellers out there, but I avoid them like the plague(like others mentioned, I rely on the scans to assist my decision to buy or not buy)....thus, 95% of my transactions I am happy with.

I buy a lot more on ebay than what I sell....however, the few concerns I have had from buyers almost always stem from them either not reading the description AND/OR not looking at the scan. Despite the fact that I feel that a buyer who does not read the description or look at the scan should own their mistake, I gladly accept the card(s) back per ebay's return policy.

Hey.
Well, this happened a little bit of a while back, so I wasn't as well-versed with the GT's yet. The main problem was it seemed like something was off, but it wasn't blatantly obvious. That's why I asked him the question I did. When all was said and done, the reason the card looked pretty much right was because he trimmed it both ways, so it still looked proportionately correct. Know what I mean?

And I haven't run into GT's that are short of spec. Granted, I haven't measured all of mine with a ruler, but I was completely unaware that was even a problem. It hasn't been with me. This guy told me he measured it and assured me it was right. Then he turned around and claimed I trimmed it. Just a complete d-uchebag.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

There are bad sellers on eBay. They are relatively few and far between. There are lots of unprofessional people with poor communications skills and bad due diligence habits. Those people are usually the ones who get complaints and they are usually negligent rather than malicious. I always assume that the seller made an honest mistake. My first communication is polite, formal and clear. If that doesn't work, then I get medieval on the now-proven scumbag.

That's certainly a good and decent way to approach it. I have to laugh, though, because it seems lately I've only run into sellers of the malicious ilk.

[mybestbretts]

Most dealers will accept a return if the item is not as described. If you don't
want to keep it discuss your problem with the seller.

If I wanted to keep it anyway, I'd erase the numbers and call it a day.

[1963Topps Set]

I just wanted to know if you considered carefully erasing the numbers since they are in pencil? If you are very careful enough, you should be able to get the job done properly. Just my two cents...

[Rich Klein]

I was about to send someone a card from their want list as part of the CU Secret Santa program. The person wanted cards in about ex and when I originally looked at the card, I treated it as a ex or better card.

When sending, I noticed a very small pen mark with a number on the back and immediately took it out of the holder and will re-price at a level according to condition with the physical damage.

Real lesson, I missed the small marking and guess what, the seller did as well.

It happens