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  #11  
Old 11-04-2018, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
These cards are pretty rare and they look awesome, but there are a few things that are bothering me here: firstly, I have not been able to find the album these cards came from, and secondly, were these cards really made in 1958? A lot of collectors see 1958 on the back and assume that is the date of manufacture - this is not true. It simply says that they won the World Cup in Sweden 1958.

Maybe Al can help us with this one ...
Well, they seem to feature the 1958 Brazil WC squad and a young looking Pele, so I don’t imagine they could have come out much later.

Really gorgeous cards either way. Has anyone seen any sales of the Pele?
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2018, 02:42 PM
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Default Not a rookie!

Here, I found this last night:



It looks similar to the one the OP posted. If you compare them, you will also notice that the image posted by the OP looks like it was damaged by UV rays. This leads me to believe that it was probably a store window display.

Again, if I got some window display from 1951 that features the New York Yankees, and I were to cut out the Mickey Mantle, do you think I could call it a 'rookie?' You Americans would laugh in my face if I did that, right?

Now I do understand that it's different when it comes to soccer cards, because they were issued in other countries, and they come in all sizes and shapes, however, a lot of the old rules that were laid out by Beckett still apply. For example, for any card to be considered a 'rookie' it has to come from a set. It also has to be a base card as well. Pretty much all the vintage soccer cards that we discuss on this forum meet this criteria.
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Last edited by samosa4u; 11-11-2018 at 02:47 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2018, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Anish View Post

That auction got one bid (not mine) at 10k!

While I believe this to probably be a 1958 issue, I am not 100% sure, which is why I could not bid. Given the fact that it is a homage to the 1958 winning squad, at least we know that it is AFTER the 1958 World Cup. That said, I imagine that everyone would be trying to capitalize on the victory in close proximity to the World Cup from an advertising perspective.

At the very least my guess would be late 1958 or early 1959 - though I am still trying to track down the album (of which many did not have dates, anyway).
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by aljurgela View Post
That auction got one bid (not mine) at 10k!

While I believe this to probably be a 1958 issue, I am not 100% sure, which is why I could not bid. Given the fact that it is a homage to the 1958 winning squad, at least we know that it is AFTER the 1958 World Cup. That said, I imagine that everyone would be trying to capitalize on the victory in close proximity to the World Cup from an advertising perspective.

At the very least my guess would be late 1958 or early 1959 - though I am still trying to track down the album (of which many did not have dates, anyway).
Yeah, I saw that. Too much for me, but would love to add one at some point
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2018, 07:23 AM
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There's a set from Argentina that's from 1964 but the only identifying references are the 1962 World Cup. I don't think that just because it says '58 World Cup on it means it's from '58.

Arthur
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2018, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post
There's a set from Argentina that's from 1964 but the only identifying references are the 1962 World Cup. I don't think that just because it says '58 World Cup on it means it's from '58.

Arthur
Yep.... I agree.... which is why I could not bid... I would like to have known and it is most likely, but not certain. As I have mentioned, I am very convinced that the Quigol rookie is most certainly NOT from 1958, yet most think that it is his rookie...

There is still a bit of "Wild West" in soccer cards for now....
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2018, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aljurgela View Post
Yep.... I agree.... which is why I could not bid... I would like to have known and it is most likely, but not certain. As I have mentioned, I am very convinced that the Quigol rookie is most certainly NOT from 1958, yet most think that it is his rookie...

There is still a bit of "Wild West" in soccer cards for now....
I wonder what other info SGC has in order to label it a 1958 issue.
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anish View Post
I wonder what other info SGC has in order to label it a 1958 issue.
If I had to guess, none. SGC will slab just about anything and if you're halfway decent at bullsh!t they'll label the flip however you want.

Arthur
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2018, 06:35 PM
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I asked the seller Paul (EmilyClare_123) for more info on this card, as I was curious since he got it graded. Below is his response:


Please see below some images a collector friend of mine in Brazil found for me. I have also written out the back page and translated below.

No intuito de homenagear dos craques brasileiros que tomaram parte no “campeonato mundial de futebol - 1958” loin incluida neste album uma pagine comemorative em que aperacom todod as nossos gloriosos jogadores campeoeos do mundo. Na aprestacao do album completo essa pagine sere deslacada e entregue ao seu presentanie como lembranca da “VI Copa do Mundo”

In order to honor the Brazilian stars who took part in the "World Cup of Football - 1958" included in this album a commemorative page in which all our glorious championship players of the world have opened. In the preparation of the complete album this page will be deprecated and delivered to your presentation as a souvenir of the "VI World Cup"


The main evidence for the collection being 1958/59 would be the inclusion of world cup final winner/scorer Vava for Vasco Da Gama as he made a high profile transfer to Spain’s Atletico Madrid in July 1958 a month after the world cup. I would suggest that the album was put to print in early July before he made the move. https://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/vava/

Also Mario Zagalo featuring for Flamengo whom he left for Botafogo in 1958. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mário_Zagallo
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  #20  
Old 11-14-2018, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collect Equity View Post
I asked the seller Paul (EmilyClare_123) for more info on this card, as I was curious since he got it graded. Below is his response:


Please see below some images a collector friend of mine in Brazil found for me. I have also written out the back page and translated below.

No intuito de homenagear dos craques brasileiros que tomaram parte no “campeonato mundial de futebol - 1958” loin incluida neste album uma pagine comemorative em que aperacom todod as nossos gloriosos jogadores campeoeos do mundo. Na aprestacao do album completo essa pagine sere deslacada e entregue ao seu presentanie como lembranca da “VI Copa do Mundo”

In order to honor the Brazilian stars who took part in the "World Cup of Football - 1958" included in this album a commemorative page in which all our glorious championship players of the world have opened. In the preparation of the complete album this page will be deprecated and delivered to your presentation as a souvenir of the "VI World Cup"


The main evidence for the collection being 1958/59 would be the inclusion of world cup final winner/scorer Vava for Vasco Da Gama as he made a high profile transfer to Spain’s Atletico Madrid in July 1958 a month after the world cup. I would suggest that the album was put to print in early July before he made the move. https://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/vava/

Also Mario Zagalo featuring for Flamengo whom he left for Botafogo in 1958. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mário_Zagallo
That’s awesome. I need that Pele!

I guess there’s no Santos (other Pele)?
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