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  #61  
Old 04-25-2017, 08:51 AM
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I think the bottom line, for me at least, is that if you put 1925 Babe Ruth in a time machine and dropped him on a field today, I think he'd struggle to hit 25 home runs. If you dropped him in 1992 and gave him all the benefits of modern training, know how, nutrition, etc. . . . .who the hell knows what would happen. I do not believe for one moment however under the later scenario that he'd be hitting 60 home runs in a year or more than entire teams are hitting. I do not believe he would be the man, myth and the legend that is is today. As I send above, he might well be Cecil Fielder.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 04-25-2017 at 08:52 AM.
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  #62  
Old 04-25-2017, 08:52 AM
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I would say absolutely not.

I think each player was made for the eras they succeeded in and most likely would not be as successful in another...this is why you know their name. This also works in reverse, today's players may be faster and better trained but would never be able to handle the toughness and differences of the past eras. I enjoy the contributions of each player to the history their sport.
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  #63  
Old 04-25-2017, 09:17 AM
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I guess I just don't understand that viewpoint. Ruth so clearly was an antithesis to that thinking. During the dead ball era he set the home run mark. During the lively ball era he set the home run mark. He set a career home run mark that has only been eclipsed twice in the 80 plus years it's been since he last appeared in a game. He was an atypical player for each era he played in. I don't see why he wouldn't be the same atypical player today. It's not even just about the home runs. The guy hit 342 over his entire career while hitting the home runs. His career OPS plus is over 200. Not even Bonds is close.

Last edited by packs; 04-25-2017 at 09:38 AM.
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  #64  
Old 04-25-2017, 09:57 AM
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It's a ridiculous argument anyway. You either accept standing of player within his era or not. If the latter, you have to kick nearly everyone out of the Hall since you are basing everything on alleged improved players today. Why even have a HOF?
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  #65  
Old 04-25-2017, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcy View Post
I believe they ran on cinder tracks back in Owen's day. As a former track runner who once ran on a cinder track, I can tell you there's a bid difference. A big of an exaggeration, but it can be like running on gravel versus the sidewalk.
I saw a show last year where they had Andre De Grasse the Olympic Bronze medalist run in conditions similar to Jesse Owen's ran in. Cinders, shoes, etc. Owens did quite well in comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jas9ff0hdFI
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  #66  
Old 04-25-2017, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
I think the bottom line, for me at least, is that if you put 1925 Babe Ruth in a time machine and dropped him on a field today, I think he'd struggle to hit 25 home runs. If you dropped him in 1992 and gave him all the benefits of modern training, know how, nutrition, etc. . . . .who the hell knows what would happen. I do not believe for one moment however under the later scenario that he'd be hitting 60 home runs in a year or more than entire teams are hitting. I do not believe he would be the man, myth and the legend that is is today. As I send above, he might well be Cecil Fielder.

To offer a different take on the modern training, equipment, etc. argument, please remember that when Ruth began playing baseball it was at an orphanage. He became Babe Ruth without any advantages at all in his life. I wouldn't hold modern equipment or training up against someone with that kind of perseverance and incredible talent.

Last edited by packs; 04-25-2017 at 10:31 AM.
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  #67  
Old 04-25-2017, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obcbobd View Post
I saw a show last year where they had Andre De Grasse the Olympic Bronze medalist run in conditions similar to Jesse Owen's ran in. Cinders, shoes, etc. Owens did quite well in comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jas9ff0hdFI
That is very cool. It would be better if he had some running mates and I don't know how you ramp up the adrenaline factor. But, very cool - thanks!
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  #68  
Old 04-27-2017, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Greg Maddux topped out at about 90mph and he was one of the greatest pitchers of all time. Walter Johnson was timed as high as 99mph. I don't think pitchers throw that much harder, even though that is really irrelevant. It is just easy for people to dismiss pitchers of that era because they didn't have speed guns timing every pitch.
Yeah, but Maddux, while one of the greatest pitchers, was never considered one of the hardest throwers of his generation. Johnson was, and by a wide margin at that. According to his Wikipedia entry, Johnson was clocked at 91mph (not sure if that is accurate, but its where I got my info).

I'm not saying that pitching speed is a suitable means of measuring a pitcher, tons of great pitchers didn't throw particularly hard while a lot of hard throwers weren't particularly great. It is however one of the few things where you can put a number on how things have changed over the years - I don't think its controversial to state that the top speeds of pitchers today is higher than it was in the early 20th century (correct me if I am wrong on this). For all the other factors that make a pitcher good - control, finesse, ability to read a batter, movement on a breaking ball, etc - they are pretty much impossible to measure and thus impossible to compare in a meaningful way. We might infer however that given all the other ways in which all sports have progressed, probably there have been incremental increases in these areas as well.
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Last edited by seanofjapan; 04-27-2017 at 02:52 AM.
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  #69  
Old 04-27-2017, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyVCP View Post
Everyone is saying that the pitching is so much better today then back then. You are not taking into consideration that the pitchers doctored the ball, spit on it and the ball stayed in play a lot longer. With that the pitcher could make the ball move a lot more then todays pitcher. So the lack of speed is made up with movement. Much harder to hit a curve ball then a fastball.
This is a fair point, but its worth mentioning that these factors were far more pronounced during the dead ball era prior to 1920 than they were during Ruth's prime, and changes to the rules limiting these (ie requiring balls be replaced when they got dirty) are sometimes cited as one of the things that enabled Ruth to do what he did.
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  #70  
Old 04-27-2017, 07:57 AM
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Absolutely he would still be great. Could you imagine if he weight trained in today's times? How can anyone stick him in today's game based upon the disparity of how good he was vs the rest of baseball then and not think he would still be great now is mind boggling. Era's change, players change, but all you can do is look at how well they did against their competition. If he played today he'd have 20 more pounds of muscle with short fences, in a juiced ball era. He'd still be the Babe.
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