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  #1  
Old 10-24-2015, 11:09 AM
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Default Lot by Lot auctions closings-I leave $ on table

It may just be poor strategy or preparation on my part, but I tend to leave money on the table when auction houses close lot by lot with a 30 minute rule. I feel rushed and discombobulated right after the extended bidding opens, not knowing if my watched lots will last another 30 minutes or 6 hours. I'm not always a loser, but the problem is a relatively fixed amount of $ to spend and multiple lots to choose from. Here's an example of how it often plays out. I have my eye on 6 lots i want, 2 of which I REALLY want. I cannot by any means afford them all.
My cash to spend is just say 10,000. Extended bidding begins:
Lot 1 REALLY want is at 5,000 ( i'll go 10,000)
Lot 2 REALLY want is at 6,000 ( I'll go 10,000)
Lot 3 at 1500 ( I,ll go 2500)
Lot 4 at 2000 ( I'll go 4000)
Lot 5 at 3500 ( Ill go 40 00)
Lot 6 at 1800 ( Ill go 3000)

After 30 min. Lot 5 closed at its 3500. I didn't even notice.
After 2 hrs Lot 6 went for 2400
Lot 1 is at 7000
Lot 2 is at 8000
Lot 3 is at 3000 so Ive lost interest
Lot 4 is at 3000
After 5 hrs Lot 1 is at 8250 ( my bid)
Lot 2 is at 7500...Im excited Im focused on lot 1 and 2
lot 4 closes at 3500
After 6 hrs Lot 1 still at my 8500
Lot 2 is at 8000 ( not my bid, I can't afford Lot 1 AND 2)
After 7 hours Lot 1 is at my bid of 9000
Lot 2 closed at 8000
After 8 hrs Lot 1 closed at 11500


Im out on LOT 1....and there's nowhere for my money to go. I would have bid more for several lots, and perhaps won more than one. They were, however, closed. This is how The Luckey Collection ( Hi Leon) played out for me. I was in on and/ or following some high dollar items. When they closed beyond my reach, the other lots I'd have gone back to had already closed. It was very disappointing and I left a lot of money in my bank account that was earmarked for Leon.
Bottom line , I much prefer the auctions that all lots close at once. Less stressful for me and there's always somewhere for my money too turn. Any helpful hints? Heritage is around the corner.
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  #2  
Old 10-24-2015, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonepony View Post
It may just be poor strategy or preparation on my part, but I tend to leave money on the table when auction houses close lot by lot with a 30 minute rule. I feel rushed and discombobulated right after the extended bidding opens, not knowing if my watched lots will last another 30 minutes or 6 hours. I'm not always a loser, but the problem is a relatively fixed amount of $ to spend and multiple lots to choose from. Here's an example of how it often plays out. I have my eye on 6 lots i want, 2 of which I REALLY want. I cannot by any means afford them all.
My cash to spend is just say 10,000. Extended bidding begins:
Lot 1 REALLY want is at 5,000 ( i'll go 10,000)
Lot 2 REALLY want is at 6,000 ( I'll go 10,000)
Lot 3 at 1500 ( I,ll go 2500)
Lot 4 at 2000 ( I'll go 4000)
Lot 5 at 3500 ( Ill go 40 00)
Lot 6 at 1800 ( Ill go 3000)

After 30 min. Lot 5 closed at its 3500. I didn't even notice.
After 2 hrs Lot 6 went for 2400
Lot 1 is at 7000
Lot 2 is at 8000
Lot 3 is at 3000 so Ive lost interest
Lot 4 is at 3000
After 5 hrs Lot 1 is at 8250 ( my bid)
Lot 2 is at 7500...Im excited Im focused on lot 1 and 2
lot 4 closes at 3500
After 6 hrs Lot 1 still at my 8500
Lot 2 is at 8000 ( not my bid, I can't afford Lot 1 AND 2)
After 7 hours Lot 1 is at my bid of 9000
Lot 2 closed at 8000
After 8 hrs Lot 1 closed at 11500


Im out on LOT 1....and there's nowhere for my money to go. I would have bid more for several lots, and perhaps won more than one. They were, however, closed. This is how The Luckey Collection ( Hi Leon) played out for me. I was in on and/ or following some high dollar items. When they closed beyond my reach, the other lots I'd have gone back to had already closed. It was very disappointing and I left a lot of money in my bank account that was earmarked for Leon.
Bottom line , I much prefer the auctions that all lots close at once. Less stressful for me and there's always somewhere for my money too turn. Any helpful hints? Heritage is around the corner.
There is no perfect solution. Sorry you lost out. That is also why their "buying on time" program made sense too. For my collection it was being offered with no interest financing since I would have been financing it. It was offered to another member this exact way at the National. In my mind, There was no reason someone who wanted something, and had the money to get it now or some months later, should have lost out. I still prefer lot by lot endinngs. It keeps more people interested. I can't say how many times I have fallen asleep on the all-nighters. Once again, sorry you lost out on some great cards. Some of them are resurfacing so maybe you will get some in the future. Had it ended at 430am there would have been a slew of other opinions.

ps..the hint is the extended payment program. Check the specifics but I think it is generally 25%'ish down and 1 percent interest per month.......I have used that program a few times when cash was lean
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Last edited by Leon; 10-24-2015 at 01:20 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2015, 01:28 PM
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I may look into that idea! Thanks
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  #4  
Old 10-24-2015, 09:01 PM
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Without a doubt I agree with Leon on that auctions should end on a per lot basis. This allows a bidding war on each lot and a known time when to login in and bid to win. Such a clear advantage to Westcoast bidders on auctions that stay open past 1AM. I wish every auction would follow Heritage, Hunt, and Huggins and Scott (that come to mind) that close on a per lot basis. Im thankfull that auctions use computors now compared to the ole chalkboards where you had to phone in your bid and they would update the "big board".
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2015, 10:11 PM
bobfreedman bobfreedman is offline
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Originally Posted by BeanTown View Post
Without a doubt I agree with Leon on that auctions should end on a per lot basis. This allows a bidding war on each lot and a known time when to login in and bid to win. Such a clear advantage to Westcoast bidders on auctions that stay open past 1AM. I wish every auction would follow Heritage, Hunt, and Huggins and Scott (that come to mind) that close on a per lot basis. Im thankfull that auctions use computors now compared to the ole chalkboards where you had to phone in your bid and they would update the "big board".
JC, if you do not mind me asking, if you were consigning, how would you want the auction to end?
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2015, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bobfreedman View Post
JC, if you do not mind me asking, if you were consigning, how would you want the auction to end?

Without a doubt the way I mentioned above. Each lot closes when no bids come in on "that" lot for 15,20, or 30 minutes.

I think Dave did an excellent job explaining the drawback too for auctions ending on a per lot basis. However, I think Leon benefited from it overall as it allowed bidding wars on 100s of lots as it forced people to bid or lose out. I will also add that I lost out on the Pinkerton Cobb cabinet as I thought it would be bid upon at least once in the extra time which it was not. I didnt want to commit to 20k that early. However, by that format I was able to win more lots I believe and place more bids. Fell a little short as the under bidder on the Shapiro Cobb, but had fun bidding on it and then it turned my interest to a couple other lots.

Ebay used to be popular for auctions and the main reason was it had a firm end time and bidders knew when to come in and bid (mainly snipers). Id rather have three interested bidders fighting for a lot than one bidder who stayed up till 4am to be. Rewarded with his choice of the auction.

Last edited by BeanTown; 10-24-2015 at 10:47 PM. Reason: Added more
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2015, 10:50 PM
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RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
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Default auction format

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Originally Posted by bobfreedman View Post
JC, if you do not mind me asking, if you were consigning, how would you want the auction to end?
Mine would be REA's mailing list and Saco River's traditional auction format.
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  #8  
Old 10-24-2015, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Mine would be REA's mailing list and Saco River's traditional auction format.

I don't know how Saco River closes?? Never bid with them. Ive been told that most auction houses have pretty close to the same mailing list (within a small percentage). Heritage might have the best mailing list with all the cross overs from coins, artwork, stamps, comics, antiques, etc.. REA seems to have some great consignments of years past.
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2015, 11:08 PM
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JC, Saco River closes like Heritage's art auctions where each item goes to the block 1 at a time. I said "REA" b/c they say they send a catalog to anyone who has ever bid in their auctions. I am a fan of REA and Heritage.
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  #10  
Old 10-25-2015, 07:04 AM
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Default auctions

I was involved in an online/live sports auction yesterday. There were about 650 lots. You could bid through the website several days before the live auction started and there was plenty of time to look at each lot before the auction began.

Then, when the live auction started, the lots came up 1 at a time. I had early online bids on 27 lots and spent a large portion of the day on my computer waiting for my lots to come up so I could increase my bids if I wanted to. The bidding was quick and easy and the auction moved quickly.

The nice thing is that I wasn't tied to the auction all day. I could estimate when my next lot was coming up, run an errand or two, or list a couple of things on eBay. I ended up listing over 50 items on ebay during the course of the auction.

The other nice thing is that I didn't have to stay up late. The live auction started at 10:30 am central and ended at around 430 pm.

This was my favorite out of all of the auction formats. The auction company wouldn't even need to have a "live" auction with bidders on site. It could be an internet only auction with live computer bidding with lots coming up one at a time.

Rick
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Last edited by buymycards; 10-25-2015 at 07:08 AM.
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  #11  
Old 10-25-2015, 07:35 AM
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The live auction format is tough. When all those Doc Steen signed M101-2s were up for auction, I had a fixed budget. All the lower value ones came up first, and I couldn't let them pass at $150-$250 each. By the time the big ones came up, I was out of cash and didn't bid. I wasn't gonna miss out on the lower value ones to risk getting shut out on the big value ones.
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2015, 08:22 AM
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The live auction format is tough. When all those Doc Steen signed M101-2s were up for auction, I had a fixed budget. All the lower value ones came up first, and I couldn't let them pass at $150-$250 each. By the time the big ones came up, I was out of cash and didn't bid. I wasn't gonna miss out on the lower value ones to risk getting shut out on the big value ones.
This has always been my struggle with live auctions. Unless the lots you are bidding on have been serendipitously ordered from your highest to lowest priority (this has yet to happen for me) you are left making tough decisions. More times than not Im left with money in hand, no cards won, wishing I had a time machine.
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2015, 02:03 PM
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Lot by lot endings are great for collectors and lousy for consignors, as are rules restricting late bids to lots you've bid on before. No question about that. I basically bid with my consignment proceeds. I cannot spend 'new' money on cards all the time. I consign a lot with Sterling, which not only has all lots closing at the same time but which allows a bid on any lot after hours regardless of whether you bid on it before as long as you bid on something before the deadline. Many of my consignments have been bid on or bid up after hours, undoubtedly because others have either been knocked out of a lot or have had their own consignments do well and are feeling flush. As a consequence I've on occasion had the scratch via consignor wash to drop a bid on a card I wanted in the auction but had not chased. Had the lots closed individually (1) I'd not have gotten the initial or next bid on my consignment and (2) I'd not have had the consignment funds available to bid and win a card I wanted. The goal is to sell every lot for as much as possible. Period. Anything that favors early bidders, cuts off later bidders, cuts off bidders with budgets, forces triaging of bids, etc., is a disservice to the consignors. And the consignors are the audience for the AH: no stuff, no auction. I definitely consider auction house rules on closing when I consign items. I am less likely to send things to AHs that limit bidding flexibility because my own experience tells me that AH is locking out potential bids.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 10-26-2015 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 10-26-2015, 02:21 PM
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Lot by lot endings are great for collectors and lousy for consignors, as are rules restricting late bids to lots you've bid on before. No question about that. I basically bid with my consignment proceeds. I cannot spend 'new' money on cards all the time. I consign a lot with Sterling, which not only has all lots closing at the same time but which allows a bid on any lot after hours regardless of whether you bid on it before as long as you bid on something before the deadline. Many of my consignments have been bid on or bid up after hours, undoubtedly because others have either been knocked out of a lot or have had their own consignments do well and are feeling flush. As a consequence I've on occasion had the scratch via consignor wash to drop a bid on a card I wanted in the auction but had not chased. Had the lots closed individually (1) I'd not have gotten the initial or next bid on my consignment and (2) I'd not have had the consignment funds available to bid and win a card I wanted. The goal is to sell every lot for as much as possible. Period. Anything that favors early bidders, cuts off later bidders, cuts off bidders with budgets, forces triaging of bids, etc., is a disservice to the consignors. And the consignors are the audience for the AH: no stuff, no auction. I definitely consider auction house rules on closing when I consign items. I am less likely to send things to AHs that limit bidding flexibility because my own experience tells me that AH is locking out potential bids.
Then what about the droves of collectors who won't fight for lots in auctions ending at 3am, and later? I won't stay up until 3am anymore and I don't think a lot of other collectors will either. So those lots that get won will not have garnered my late bids. That is why the well heeled collectors like them ending late. They get to pick the lots off without fighting.
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:08 PM
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Then what about the droves of collectors who won't fight for lots in auctions ending at 3am, and later? I won't stay up until 3am anymore and I don't think a lot of other collectors will either. So those lots that get won will not have garnered my late bids. That is why the well heeled collectors like them ending late. They get to pick the lots off without fighting.
Just put in a "MaxBid"...I hear they're all the rage
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:12 PM
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As mentioned by others, I don't think there's a perfect way to end auctions. And if there's still money left in your wallet at the end, there seems to be major auctions closing every couple of weeks, so more to spend then!
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