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  #41  
Old 01-19-2018, 08:13 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
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The Wallach collector's address is a legal office. Wonder if his firm specializes in Monopoly defense work.

Arthur-- is it true that the confirmed source is on Red Reddington's Blacklist ?

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 01-19-2018 at 08:24 AM.
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  #42  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:54 AM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
Dylan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowpopper View Post
I completely agree but the answer is out there somewhere. The cards have been out for 27+ years now and there is only maybe 100-200 of them. I am beginning to think that they may not have come out of packs and could have easily been found in a Topps scrap pile....just a thought.

Moreover, if there was over 100 finds so far, why is there no written account of a pull from a pack/set type of medium?

The Bush-Yale card never came from packs....

If possible, someone please cite an exact documented account of a true NNOF find.
Correct on the Bush Yale card. That was misinfo by Beckett.

The NNOF Thomas (orange sheet blackless) absolutely did NOT come from factory sets. That was an angle by sellers in the mid 90's to move surplus. But as you've seen, there are plenty of other near or partial blackless cards from other sheets to be found in them. I pulled that same Drabek out of one years ago.

These cards have been pulled from packs in the last 10 years, but shy of live videos of a sealed case being broken that contained them, you won't find 100% guaranteed evidence of it. From my memory, a guy on the CU boards named "RookieWax" had pulled at least one at the time of that thread. I believe he is still active on that board. He had the accompanying/connecting ones to go with it. The thread had been derailed because he decided to start offering packs for sale from the batch of retail/grocery display packs he pulled his from.
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  #43  
Old 01-19-2018, 11:08 AM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
Dylan
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A couple things to keep in mind with these cards.

There exists other degrees of missing black ink on the affected area subjects.

Thomas missing little chips and pieces of his name, Marcus Lawton with small blackless pieces, etc. So there was some type of transition between the original plate/print flaw and correction. Or perhaps the minor missing-black cards were a precursor to the famous ones.

The green sheet subjects are also prone to missing black ink. Chris Gwynn, Roger Salkeld, Jerome Walton are a few I have pulled (from junk boxes/hand collated sets, not sealed product). These, like the orange sheet cards, are not faded or "going blackless" but missing smaller sized areas of the card's black print.

And last year a seller on ebay had found (on ebay) a full, uncut, blackless "dark blue" border sheet. No black ink whatsoever. He had them cut and sold off singles. I believe a Dale Murphy was the big name on that one. He may have a few commons up for sale still.

Oh and this is 100% second-hand information from almost 20 years ago but I was working in card shop and whenever the subject of errors or odd cards stuff came up, one of our regulars would tell a story about how he bought out a local arcade's vending machine stock of cards. He described them as machines that dispensed cards for $0.25 or $0.50 (don't recall qty or exact price). Anyway, he bought these cardboard boxes filled with junk, mostly 1990 Topps. He had sorted through them looking for Thomas and Juan Gonzalez, eventually he came across a Thomas and was "disappointed" to discover that it had most of his name printed on front. He described it as either missing the beginning or ending of his name (FRANK THOM ), I do not recall, but remember trying to visualize it. I've grilled him about this over the years and he claims it was never sold and sits buried in a box in storage.
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  #44  
Old 01-19-2018, 01:29 PM
steve B steve B is online now
Steve Birmingham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage View Post
A couple things to keep in mind with these cards.

There exists other degrees of missing black ink on the affected area subjects.

Thomas missing little chips and pieces of his name, Marcus Lawton with small blackless pieces, etc. So there was some type of transition between the original plate/print flaw and correction. Or perhaps the minor missing-black cards were a precursor to the famous ones.
More likely they came just after.

The obstructing object, whatever it was - and I'm thinking it was some tape- was removed from the platemaking machine, but not as well as it should have been, leaving a few bits behind. Not at all a stretch --- Hey, that black plate you made is a mess, we need a new one NOW!
Later on, maybe a lot, maybe a little they realize the new one isn't great, and get another. In between the platemaker has really cleaned the machine, (and probably the whole work area, nobody likes getting in trouble over stray tape)
And the next plate is just fine.
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  #45  
Old 01-19-2018, 06:38 PM
West West is offline
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Pretty good notes and stories here. Many of you have already seen these but I'll throw in some scans to match names to faces. The "partial missing black" run has been mentioned as a "precursor" or perhaps more accurately, a "postscript" to the NNOF error run.

A partial missing black Frank Thomas:


A properly authenticated BGS "partial missing black" owned by Joe:



3 known cards affected by the partial missing black error run (I believe the Magrane could possibly be a 4th):


Notice that the Tapani has a very faint, vertical/slightly diagonal blue line running up the card that passes through the middle of his face. Check out an actual blackless Tapani with the exact same blue line which tells you the printing plates are directly related:


A run of different Marcus Lawton errors pulled from the same case by Joe (RookieWax). L to R, a blackless Lawton from NNOF run, a partially missing black from the related error run, and a partial missing black variation:



A slight correction to the post about green sheet errors only containing border breaks. Here are two (of 4 known) partial blackless Chris Speier that I own:



Other partial blackless from green sheet:




A normal Leibrandt (left) and a Leibrandt with border breaks (right):

Last edited by West; 01-19-2018 at 06:44 PM.
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  #46  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:46 PM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West View Post


A slight correction to the post about green sheet errors only containing border breaks. Here are two (of 4 known) partial blackless Chris Speier that I own:
I didn't mean to say the green sheet blackless cards were only border breaks, I meant that they were clearly missing all black ink in certain areas, not fading out or grayish, etc. Cited border breaks as an example since Salkeld, Gwynn and Walton had missing black ink noticeably affecting their borders.
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  #47  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:55 PM
West West is offline
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Gotcha, that makes sense.

I do believe I have read that there are differences - in terms of the causation of the error - between the cards only missing border breaks vs cards that have both border breaks and cloudy/blackless areas in the photograph/nameplate/team name areas. Not versed enough in offset lithography to remember the differences, and I could be wrong.

Either way, quite interesting to see the Drabek and related errors. Quality control on the factory sets couldn't have been great...
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  #48  
Old 01-19-2018, 09:28 PM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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Here's the link to the guy with the blackless dark blue sheet cards:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...topps&_sacat=0
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Last edited by jacksoncoupage; 01-19-2018 at 09:29 PM.
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  #49  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:00 PM
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Greg C
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The purpose of this thread is to unveil which packs/sets are producing
which errors....and ultimately where the NNOF might possibly be found.

I got my A & B sheet partial blackless from this set here. The orange F sheet was basically unaffected.

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  #50  
Old 01-19-2018, 11:14 PM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowpopper View Post
The purpose of this thread is to unveil which packs/sets are producing
which errors....and ultimately where the NNOF might possibly be found.

I got my A & B sheet partial blackless from this set here. The orange F sheet was basically unaffected.
If you or anyone else opening factory sets of 1990 Topps are interested in selling me the Topps Magazine topper/inserts, send me a PM.
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