Heritage Results

[ullmandds]

Well it's over and $717K seems to be the hammer ultimus!

Rose 10 RC, 56 mantle 10, 53 topps mays 10, ruth roookie 7...alll sold for 717K!
More "normal" prices on more modern non baseball HOF rookies...like jordan...and brown and gretzky

psa 8 commiskey A & G 34K...SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!

Despite ridiculous prices for modern condition rarities...Vintage still appears to be king!!!! Same money for 71 topps clemente or mantle mid-high grade 52 topps rookie...seriously????

1.8 mill for the conlon archive!!!!!!! Someone's gonna run with that!!!!



Strong strong hammer prices for the most part I'd say!!!!!

[Dpeck100]

Looks like all of the people calling for a collapse will just have to keep waiting. The Rose was 157k in 2012. Very impressive price!

[e107collector]

Pete,

The 53 Topps Mays didn't sell. The reserve was at $600K, never hit the price. Same goes for the Goudey DiMaggio, Matty Jersey.

I have to agree, some crazy prices on many lots.

Tony

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Looks like all of the people calling for a collapse will just have to keep waiting. The Rose was 157k in 2012. Very impressive price!

nice return!

[Jdoggs]

Actually 56 mantle 10 sold for $382k I believe.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

Actually 56 mantle 10 sold for $382k I believe.

oopsie...it's early and I drank too much last night!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by e107collector

Pete,

The 53 Topps Mays didn't sell. The reserve was at $600K, never hit the price. Same goes for the Goudey DiMaggio, Matty Jersey.

I have to agree, some crazy prices on many lots.

Tony

I'm glad the "Matty" jersey didn't sell.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by e107collector

Pete,

The 53 Topps Mays didn't sell. The reserve was at $600K, never hit the price. Same goes for the Goudey DiMaggio, Matty Jersey.

I have to agree, some crazy prices on many lots.

Tony

ahhh...didn't notice that either. greed!

[Snapolit1]

Not clear to me in a rational market how a Pete Rose Topps card from the 1960s could be worth 20 or 25 times what a Gehrig rookie card (less than 45 in existence) fetches. Or about 10 times what a Shoeless Joe CJ reels in. Maybe someone can figure that out.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Not clear to me in a rational market how a Pete Rose Topps card from the 1960s could be worth 20 or 25 times what a Gehrig rookie card (less than 45 in existence) fetches. Or about 10 times what a Shoeless Joe CJ reels in. Maybe someone can figure that out.

Bragging rights. Only one person gets to say they own a PSA 10 Gem Mint.

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Bragging rights. Only one person gets to say they own a PSA 10 Gem Mint.

+1

[Snapolit1]

Yes, and when someone finds another 10 in a book somewhere your investment may look like a NY taxi medallion the day Uber showed up. Through the floor.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yes, and when someone finds another 10 in a book somewhere your investment may look like a NY taxi medallion the day Uber showed up. Through the floor.

Ask the buyer of the only PSA 10 Wayne Gretzky how they feel about their purchase at 94k. Was ridiculed to no end online at the time for sure.

Fast forward and card sells for 465k.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yes, and when someone finds another 10 in a book somewhere your investment may look like a NY taxi medallion the day Uber showed up. Through the floor.

Not everyone views their cards or collection as an "investment," and ties pleasure to what they are worth.

If one's card collecting hobby includes waiting or hoping for another Rose PSA 10 to get graded to indulge in some schadenfreude, one really needs to look inward and get rid of that bitterness and bile. I personally suggest yoga and lots of time on the beach

[Snapolit1]

Not rooting for anyone's card to go down in price. Not sure why you read that into my comment. Just stating the obvious: there is a lot more undiscovered recent cards than old ones. Any if you think someone spending 700,000 on a card is not a speculator for profit I disagree.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Not rooting for anyone's card to go down in price. Not sure why you read that into my comment. Just stating the obvious: there is a lot more undiscovered recent cards than old ones. Any if you think someone spending 700,000 on a card is not a speculator for profit I disagree.

I think anyone dropping that kind of cash on a piece of cardboard certainly doesn't want to see it decline in value. If it does perhaps it has no impact on them financially but they won't like it that is for sure.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Looks like all of the people calling for a collapse will just have to keep waiting. The Rose was 157k in 2012. Very impressive price!

Not sure anyone here stated a collapse of the 10 market would take place. That is an entirely different animal but there are many, including myself, who said the 9s and lower market would correct and it has almost across the board.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Not rooting for anyone's card to go down in price. Not sure why you read that into my comment. Just stating the obvious: there is a lot more undiscovered recent cards than old ones. Any if you think someone spending 700,000 on a card is not a speculator for profit I disagree.

Yeah I did not read that you were rooting either. The OP is way off base. Guess he does not recognize that population figures on cards never get smaller.

[yanks12025]

This hobby is so stupid. And it doesn't only deal with graded cards but also bats. A PSA Rose Rookie card graded a 10 sells for $700,000 while a PSA 9 sold for $19,000. Guess what, they looked the same. But nope, lets spent 680,000 more for a 10.

[keithsky]

Brock, I totally agree with you on the PSA grade from 10 to 9 and the ridiculous prices. I always thought the most stupid thing to buy was a baseball graded by PSA. Since baseballs tone over time and discolor, you could buy a PSA 10 and 2 years later the ball has brown spots so the guy that bought it lists it as a PSA 10 which it clearly is not so it's like false advertisment and then you get the idiot buying it cause it is a 10. Makes no sense buying a graded baseball but people do because they they are obsessed with a number.

[Dpeck100]

Where do you think you can get a PSA 9 Mint 1963 Topps Pete Rose rookie for $19,000????

Try $100k plus.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Where do you think you can get a PSA 9 Mint 1963 Topps Pete Rose rookie for $19,000????

Try $100k plus.

Heritage website said it sold for $19,000 last night. So unless their price is wrong.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Heritage website said it sold for $19,000 last night. So unless their price is wrong.

The 9 sold for 131k last night on heritage.

[prestigecollectibles]

Psa 10 $717,000
psa 9 $131,450

[prestigecollectibles]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

This hobby is so stupid. And it doesn't only deal with graded cards but also bats. A PSA Rose Rookie card graded a 10 sells for $700,000 while a PSA 9 sold for $19,000. Guess what, they looked the same. But nope, lets spent 680,000 more for a 10.

PSA 9 Sold For: $19,120.00 Nov 6, 2014

[CMIZ5290]

Where did the PSA 7 green Cobb end up?

[prestigecollectibles]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Where did the PSA 7 green Cobb end up?

Sold For: $71,700.00

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by cmiz5290

where did the psa 7 green cobb end up?

71700

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

Psa 10 $717,000
psa 9 $131,450

$717,000 hahahahaha.

In MY opinion this won't/can't last.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

PSA 9 Sold For: $19,120.00 Nov 6, 2014

That explains it.. lol

Either way, still a huge difference between 717K and 191K for two cards that look alike.

[Dpeck100]

It doesn't matter if the two look alike. One says PSA 9 and one says PSA 10. There are obviously times when a 9 turns into a 10 but at the end of the day the card graded PSA 10 will always be king in price.

It is so simple. Humans are turned on by having what is deemed to be the best.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

It doesn't matter if the two look alike. One says PSA 9 and one says PSA 10. There are obviously times when a 9 turns into a 10 but at the end of the day the card graded PSA 10 will always be king in price.

It is so simple. Humans are turned on by having what is deemed to be the best.

And the exact same card that is best today might not be tomorrow. A 10 can always be a 9 and vice versa, from what I have seen. And both can come back trimmed on the 3rd day and back to a 10 the next day. It's a great way to invest .

Twenty somethings minting money .....

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

It is so simple. Humans are turned on by having what is deemed to be the best.

Originally Posted by Leon

Twenty somethings minting money

The issue is the phrase "what is deemed" and how "humans" can be so easily lured into what one person's opinion may be.

I can only imagine the power a card grader must feel when s/he ultimately assigns a 10 to a piece of cardboard, turning it into a winning lottery ticket. Must be intoxicating - how could that fact alone not blur judgment?

[Snapolit1]

How about the possibility that the card was submitted by the guy down the hall who just bought it at auction and a bump will pay his kids college tuitions in one fell swoop, or it was submitted by a client you'd really like a lot more business from. Human nature suggests those possibilities as well.

[Leon]

It is literally like hitting the lottery if you get the coveted "10". And it is a 100% subjective number given out by a for profit business. Nah, I am sure everything is fine. That's where I am putting my money...the next Rose in a 10 holder is all mine.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

How about the possibility that the card was submitted by the guy down the hall who just bought it at auction and a bump will pay his kids college tuitions in one fell swoop, or it was submitted by a client you'd really like a lot more business from. Human nature suggests those possibilities as well.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by Leon

And it is a 100% subjective number given out by a for profit business.

Says it all IMO

[Yoda]

I wonder, for example, at PSA how many graders have to examine and concur before a gem mint 10 grade is awarded. Given the final auction price on the Rose RC, I certainly hope Joe Orlando gives final approval for a gem mint grade on a high value card, if he doesn't already.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I wonder, for example, at PSA how many graders have to examine and concur before a gem mint 10 grade is awarded.

That's exactly the point - that there is this much money being committed without that minimum level of transparency is shocking to me. I would bet that transparency of the process would actually diminish the value of the product being sold -- why else would they hide it?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I wonder, for example, at PSA how many graders have to examine and concur before a gem mint 10 grade is awarded. Given the final auction price on the Rose RC, I certainly hope Joe Orlando gives final approval for a gem mint grade on a high value card, if he doesn't already.

I doubt very seriously Joe Orlando looks at a single card. When CGC used to be booming, I knew without uncertainty that Steve Borock looked at every single "worthwhile" comic that came thru CGC. I don't think Joe Oralndo looks at anything. I see him more as a figurehead.

[Snapolit1]

In any kind of "scientific" endeavor, consistency across graders would be considered de riguer. For example, entire forensic science have gone kaput when people have devised studies to blind a decent sample of reviewers to see what kind of consistency exists. All of a sudden one guys grade 1 is another guys 3 and another gal's 5.

[T206Collector]

Third-party graders are literally and allegorically the "men behind the curtain." There is intent in the process being shielded from the customer -- the mystery of the grade is part of the value; and a hidden process is not as susceptible to genuine scrutiny.

If you could watch your card being "graded" you might find yourself arguing with the grader, and trying to influence the outcome. But, that you cannot engage in such a conversation with the grader doesn't mean nobody can.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

How about the possibility that the card was submitted by the guy down the hall who just bought it at auction and a bump will pay his kids college tuitions in one fell swoop, or it was submitted by a client you'd really like a lot more business from. Human nature suggests those possibilities as well.

++. This is absolutely going on. If I had some high value important cards for bumps, I would never submit them myself, I'm just a newbie to PSA. I'd find the most influential submitter and give them a fee to submit them for me.

This is how our economy works. Those that have the relationships, carry the hammer. No different than our political parties.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I doubt very seriously Joe Orlando looks at a single card. When CGC used to be booming, I knew without uncertainty that Steve Borock looked at every single "worthwhile" comic that came thru CGC. I don't think Joe Oralndo looks at anything. I see him more as a figurehead.

I obviously have no idea what actually happens at grading companies like PSA, etc. However, I would think for six figure cards, somebody high up, maybe even Joe Orlando, looks at the card. Obviously someone like Joe is probably not a grading expert, and he has to trust his grading team. However, PSA also has to back that card and grade. If there is some obvious flaw like a crease that is somehow missed by the graders on a PSA 10, and that card is resold after grading, the new owners can come to PSA for compensation on a mis-grade. This probably wouldn't matter for most cards, but for really expensive cards, that's a lot of liability for TPG's that perhaps someone like Joe may want to take a peek at the card before it goes out.

I agree with most that the minute differences between a PSA 9 and 10 make the prices for a 10 seem absurd. I don't collect 10's, and I think the only 10 in my collection is a card from the 1980s that I purchased in a 10 for twenty bucks because it was one of my favorite cards from that era. (and that card is never going to rise in value.) However, there are some people with a lot of money who all they buy are the best of the best. I think I read in some article from Heritage's magazine Intelligent Collector that Ken Kendrick has stated he only collects the absolute best cards. So be it. That doesn't mean there isn't a legitimate market for cards in that stratosphere. There are some really rich people that buy art just because some art critic or dealer say that this is a masterpiece, and is worth $$$$. However, to us, that art looks like something my five year old could draw. However, these folks still shell out the dollars, and ask where they can buy more of those. When prices for cards hit six figures, it's so out of my means, it's just rich people buying things rich people buy to me, and that's all there is to it, with reasonable value rarely part of the equation.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

That's exactly the point - that there is this much money being committed without that minimum level of transparency is shocking to me. I would bet that transparency of the process would actually diminish the value of the product being sold -- why else would they hide it?

Transparency of the grading process, or the subjectivity of such, is not the elephant in the room. How they authenticate older cards is.

What techniques and tools is PSA using to stay one step ahead of the counterfeiters? This process needs to be transparent, because it will lend credibility to the PSA brand.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Transparency of the grading process, or the subjectivity of such, is not the elephant in the room. How they authenticate older cards is.

What techniques and tools is PSA using to stay one step ahead of the counterfeiters? This process needs to be transparent, because it will lend credibility to the PSA brand.

I am as big a PSA hater as the next guy but I 100% disagree with the above statement.

All adding transparency to how they authenticate cards will do is make the card doctors/counterfeiters better. It would let them know what they could and couldn't get away with.

[Exhibitman]

When prices hit that sort of level for a card that is easily found in beautiful condition, it doesn't seem reasonable. And what happens when the handful of guys who can afford to spend $717,000 on a card get tired of comparing pee-pees with baseball cards as the ruler?

Does anyone really think that a 1963 Rose is a good investment at $717,000? If so, I'd love to hear your rationale.

[pokerplyr80]

Personally I think that Rose at 700k is a great investment. I can't afford it, but it's the only one ever to receive that grade. There are plenty of collectors out there with a lot of money to spend. Rare cars and paintings have sold for 10s of millions before and continue to rise in value. Books, comics, coins, guns, pretty much anything that is collected big premiums are paid for examples that have survived in perfect condition.

For a guy who spends 50 mil on a rare vintage Ferrari, or 100 mil for a Van Gogh, what's 1 or 2 mil for the only perfect Rose, Ryan, Mantle, etc RC?

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

For a guy who spends 50 mil on a rare vintage Ferrari, or 100 mil for a Van Gogh, what's 1 or 2 mil for the only perfect Rose, Ryan, Mantle, etc RC?

You're really comparing a piece of cardboard graded by a (censored) to a Ferrari?
It's a crazy world we live in. I would love to meet one of these people and try to understand the thought process of 700k for a cheap piece of cardboard with a crappy photo on it.

At the peak of tulip mania, in March 1637, some single tulip bulbs sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman. Now it's Rose mania.

[nrm1977]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

You're really comparing a piece of cardboard graded by a (censored) to a Ferrari?
It's a crazy world we live in. I would love to meet one of these people and try to understand the thought process of 700k for a cheap piece of cardboard with a crappy photo on it.

At the peak of tulip mania, in March 1637, some single tulip bulbs sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman. Now it's Rose mania.

I concur!!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

At the peak of tulip mania, in March 1637, some single tulip bulbs sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman.

If you ever seen the tulip fields in the Netherlands you would understand. Ok maybe not but they are beautiful beyond belief.