Thoughts on Kaepernick & the national anthem

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Absolutely agreed, Leon. The only reason I posted that is because there some people that think white people can't be discriminated against simply because they're white.

I never said that. But yeah, I'm sure white males have it just as bad as any minority in a country founded by rich, slave-owning white guys.

As to your comment about a double-standard, acknowledging racism exists in the world isn't an opinion, that's an unfortunate fact. Saying "It's OK to say [insert whatever colloquialism here] because it's not racist" is an opinion. That's the difference. All I'm saying is I hear a lot of people who aren't in the group that's being offended telling other people what they think is offensive and what isn't. Their God-given right to HAVE an opinion doesn't make their opinion valid. If you're trying to decide between the chicken or the fish, are you going to ask a vegan?

Leon, I can totally agree on your point about parenting but I don't think that's actually the debate here. I don't necessarily agree that there are more opportunities in the overall, simply because a few high-ranking positions are occupied by people of color. Sure, those are very powerful positions, but they are still outliers. Look into the general populace of any city in America and tell me opportunities exist equally. Look into the comparison of sentencing to the crime committed between white people and black people and tell me there's equality there. That's what Kaepernick's protest was about. Not the military, not a flag, the idea that equality doesn't exist in the vast majority of this country. Him having millions of dollars doesn't negate his right to empathize with a cause, because he too is an outlier. Brock Turner serves 3 months for raping a girl and there are black men in jail for longer than that for having a small amount of marijuana. If Brock Turner was black do you think he'd be free right now? Ask yourself that honestly.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by dgo71

If you're trying to decide between the chicken or the fish, are you going to ask a vegan?

What if you ask the chef and he happens to be a vegan? Does he not get an opinion because he's vegan? Is he going to tell you, "I don't get an opinion"? Certainly not, but that's what you're saying.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

What if you ask the chef and he happens to be a vegan? Does he not get an opinion because he's vegan? Is he going to tell you, "I don't get an opinion"? Certainly not, but that's what you're saying.

You keep missing that this is not what I'm saying at all. He clearly and obviously has the right to an opinion. I, as a rational person able to take circumstance into consideration, can then determine the validity of the opinion. Again, his right to an opinion doesn't make it relevant. By your logic, you'll get the fish and hate it and blame the guy that's never tried either dish.

[Leon]

If you don't think there are more opportunities today, for minorities, then I guess you just don't get out much. It's really not even a debate as much as a rhetorical question. The answer is yes, regardless of what anyone thinks. It is just yes.
If I look into the general populace I see minorities and whites too, being kept down due to the hands that feed them, which allows them to not have to feed themselves. It really is the old adage, "teach a man to fish." I want to help everyone help themselves. And along they way if they need a year or two of financial assistance (to be paid back), I can handle that. As long as I see them doing the right things (the right things being, being a productive individual), then I will help. It takes effort to succeed and most social programs today seem to make it too easy to keep taking the handout.

The more programs there are to help, the more the people they intend to help are hurt. It is common sense. Really, it is, I promise.

I volunteer at the Salvation Army every week and have for 16 yrs running. I council homeless veterans on life skills. We have some pretty interesting classes as my views have always (for many, many years) stayed the same.

Originally Posted by dgo71

I never said that. But yeah, I'm sure white males have it just as bad as any minority in a country founded by rich, slave-owning white guys.

As to your comment about a double-standard, acknowledging racism exists in the world isn't an opinion, that's an unfortunate fact. Saying "It's OK to say [insert whatever colloquialism here] because it's not racist" is an opinion. That's the difference. All I'm saying is I hear a lot of people who aren't in the group that's being offended telling other people what they think is offensive and what isn't. Their God-given right to HAVE an opinion doesn't make their opinion valid. If you're trying to decide between the chicken or the fish, are you going to ask a vegan?

Leon, I can totally agree on your point about parenting but I don't think that's actually the debate here. I don't necessarily agree that there are more opportunities in the overall, simply because a few high-ranking positions are occupied by people of color. Sure, those are very powerful positions, but they are still outliers. Look into the general populace of any city in America and tell me opportunities exist equally. Look into the comparison of sentencing to the crime committed between white people and black people and tell me there's equality there. That's what Kaepernick's protest was about. Not the military, not a flag, the idea that equality doesn't exist in the vast majority of this country. Him having millions of dollars doesn't negate his right to empathize with a cause, because he too is an outlier. Brock Turner serves 3 months for raping a girl and there are black men in jail for longer than that for having a small amount of marijuana. If Brock Turner was black do you think he'd be free right now? Ask yourself that honestly.

[FourStrikes]

well-said, Leon.

Originally Posted by Leon

If you don't think there are more opportunities today, for minorities, then I guess you just don't get out much. It's really not even a debate as much as a rhetorical question. The answer is yes, regardless of what anyone thinks. It is just yes.
If I look into the general populace I see minorities and whites too, being kept down due to the hands that feed them, which allows them to not have to feed themselves. It really is the old adage, "teach a man to fish." I want to help everyone help themselves. And along they way if they need a year or two of financial assistance (to be paid back), I can handle that. As long as I see them doing the right things (the right things being, being a productive individual), then I will help. It takes effort to succeed and most social programs today seem to make it too easy to keep taking the handout.

The more programs there are to help, the more the people they intend to help are hurt. It is common sense. Really, it is, I promise.

I volunteer at the Salvation Army every week and have for 16 yrs running. I council homeless veterans on life skills. We have some pretty interesting classes as my views have always (for many, many years) stayed the same.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

If you don't think there are more opportunities today, for minorities, then I guess you just don't get out much. It's really not even a debate as much as a rhetorical question. The answer is yes, regardless of what anyone thinks. It is just yes.
If I look into the general populace I see minorities and whites too, being kept down due to the hands that feed them, which allows them to not have to feed themselves. It really is the old adage, "teach a man to fish." I want to help everyone help themselves. And along they way if they need a year or two of financial assistance (to be paid back), I can handle that. As long as I see them doing the right things (the right things being, being a productive individual), then I will help. It takes effort to succeed and most social programs today seem to make it too easy to keep taking the handout.

The more programs there are to help, the more the people they intend to help are hurt. It is common sense. Really, it is, I promise.

I volunteer at the Salvation Army every week and have for 16 yrs running. I council homeless veterans on life skills. We have some pretty interesting classes as my views have always (for many, many years) stayed the same.

+1

I go to a predominately black Baptist church in south Houston. The pastor is black, the youth pastor is black. The pastor has a masters degree in economics and the youth pastor has a doctorates in theology. If you told them they didn't have the same opportunity that a white person has, they would set you straight real quick. Derrick (or anybody else), come on down to the Anderson Road Baptist Church with me next Sunday and spew your lack or opportunities/equality ridiculous nonsense and I have some black brothers (in Christ) that will set you straight real quick. It's a serious invite.

[egri]

I don't like what he's doing, think he has a right to do it, and have a hard time finding sympathy for a guy who makes $12 million a year playing football. I think Benjamin Watson hit the nail on the head with the letter he wrote after Ferguson.

[dgo71]

Yup, seems totally legit. If you think minorities are provided the generosity, opportunity and second chances that white males receive, you don't get out at all.

Vintagetoppsguy, as much as I appreciate the invite I don't see hopping on a plane for Houston to talk to the two black people you know that are doing well as an accurate barometer for equality. But keep telling yourself everything is fine, that's really all that matters.

Edited to add, are there more opportunities today then...whatever point in history, yes. It was within most of our lifetimes that black men and women couldn't use the same restroom as white people though. So yes, we've come a ways from those days, nobody is arguing that, but making improvements on ideals that should be shamefully embarrassing is hardly the same thing as equality.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Yup, seems totally legit. If you think minorities are provided the generosity, opportunity and second chances that white males receive, you don't get out at all.

Vintagetoppsguy, as much as I appreciate the invite I don't see hopping on a plane for Houston to talk to the two black people you know that are doing well as an accurate barometer for equality. But keep telling yourself everything is fine, that's really all that matters.

Edited to add, are there more opportunities today then...whatever point in history, yes. It was within most of our lifetimes that black men and women couldn't use the same restroom as white people though. So yes, we've come a ways from those days, nobody is arguing that, but making improvements on ideals that should be shamefully embarrassing is hardly the same thing as equality.

life is the result of the choices you make and everything that happens is your fault and to your credit, blaming other people is silly scapegoat nonsense. yes they have the same opportunities, but they have made cultural choices in many communities to ignore those opportunities for the easy way out. Your amusing "safe space" rhetoric makes me sick to my stomach. what lame white bread middle class suburb did you come from to spout such hilariously naive platitudes?

hipster, pandering, white guilt rubbish, every damn thing you've said

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

life is the result of the choices you make and everything that happens is your fault and to your credit, blaming other people is silly scapegoat nonsense. yes they have the same opportunities, but they have made cultural choices in many communities to ignore those opportunities for the easy way out. Your amusing "safe space" rhetoric makes me sick to my stomach. what lame white bread middle class suburb did you come from to spout such hilariously naive platitudes?

hipster, pandering, white guilt rubbish, every damn thing you've said

Glad you and your white privilege took the high road.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Glad you and your white privilege took the high road.

You have to admit that the poverty pimps who jump on the 'racism' bandwagon in specific cases when it doesn't exist hurts more than helps. They only want 'the truth' when it fits their narrative. Otherwise they'll just repeat the lies until people believe it really happened.