Opinions on Value/Authenticity

[cavaliercards]

A customer whose husband passed, just brought this into the store as she found it in his desk when cleaning it out. The item measures 5.5" x 8"

Interested in opinions on value and/or authenticity.
Thanks, Jeff

[MooseDog]

Nice piece, absolutely authentic.

[Matvoo]

Awesome piece

[jbsports33]

Great looking Autos - send to SGC or PSA for a COA!

Jimmy

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by jbsports33

Great looking Autos - send to SGC or PSA for a COA!

I can never tell who is kidding and who is serious about grading.

Great find!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

Nice piece, absolutely authentic.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Folks, we have a serious problem in the area of vintage autographs. The guys who are turning out this stuff are licking their chops when they read comments like this. I don't know if all the widows who are showing up in card shops and at auction house doorsteps are 'con-women' or if their husbands were buying crap over the years (forgeries are not the wonderful exclusive output of today's generation) or if pleasant young men are asking them to take these pieces to card shops with a story that "won't do anyone any harm".

[shelly]

Sorry wrong picture

[shelly]

Really, how can you say this is a good piece. Here is a Lefty Grove autograph. I dont care what year this was done. Just look and can anyone say that the sheet is authentic. The grove I am showing you has been authenticated by your top two guys. Then look at the F in Foxx and the Frirtz looks like the exact same hand writeing..Look at the Cronin. To say that something is authentic and have him waste his money does not make sence. Just look before you leap.

lg.jpg

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by shelly

Then look at the F in Foxx and the Frirtz looks like the exact same hand writeing

Great observation!

This is why I don't "do" autographs.

[djson1]

Originally Posted by shelly

Really, how can you say this is a good piece. Here is a Lefty Grove autograph. I dont care what year this was done. Just look and can anyone say that the sheet is authentic. The grove I am showing you has been authenticated by your top two guys. Then look at the F in Foxx and the Frirtz looks like the exact same hand writeing..Look at the Cronin. To say that something is authentic and have him waste his money does not make sence. Just look before you leap.

Attachment 153821

The first Lefty Grove sig I ever bought was on a 3x5 and it looks almost exactly like the one you posted. Same pressure as well. I bought mine from RJ Jack Smalling back in the day. Jack Smalling was known for collecting a ton of sigs on 3x5s that he obtained through the mail. I believe most of his stuff was good...although he did sell a lot of secretarials.

But one thing I have noticed is that Lefty Grove did vary his signature a little bit throughout his career. Although, if I read your comment correctly, you're saying the sample posted on this thread is probably not authentic. I think it does look suspect....as do the rest of the sigs on that page.

[shelly]

Just for the fun of it here is a bing miller.

bing_miller_autograph.jpg

[jbsports33]

Never clearly stated it was authentic, just needs to be sent in for a look and if I had it, I would at least invest in the money to see what comes out of it – yes we have a problem in this hobby with many autographs. I have bought and sold a lot over the years, but its statements, like on this post that make me not want to say anything on this board. The problem is that no one wants to do that extra step of sending autographs in for a look – instead they go on boards like this first and Jeff you had every right to ask. Board members are here to help – but it’s hard to give any kind of opinion when there is always responses like this. Yes it would be a possibility that some of them had been added to look good, but that is why we have to see items in person too! Take it to PSA and SGC or even JSA and just see what they say

Jimmy

[RelicSports]

I am not familiar with the authenticity for the more common players, but I would say all the "valuable" sigs such as Pennock, Foxx, Grove, Cronin etc. are secretarial/not-authenitc. Personally, I wouldn't waste my $$ sending it in to a TPA

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jbsports33

Never clearly stated it was authentic, just needs to be sent in for a look and if I had it, I would at least invest in the money to see what comes out of it – yes we have a problem in this hobby with many autographs. I have bought and sold a lot over the years, but its statements, like on this post that make me not want to say anything on this board. The problem is that no one wants to do that extra step of sending autographs in for a look – instead they go on boards like this first and Jeff you had every right to ask. Board members are here to help – but it’s hard to give any kind of opinion when there is always responses like this. Yes it would be a possibility that some of them had been added to look good, but that is why we have to see items in person too! Take it to PSA and SGC or even JSA and just see what they say

Jimmy

Jimmy, my statements weren't in response to yours - up until your last post, I really did think you were joking about sending this item to an authenticator. It saddens me that you were serious, but I'll have a donut and feel better in a minute, so don't worry about the effects that your post had on me.

People ask questions here, not just to avoid fees, but also to avoid sending fakes in and have them end up with a JSA or PSA certificate attached to them. It's kind of like dog breeders that won't give papers to puppies that come from dogs with bad breed characteristics.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by jbsports33

Never clearly stated it was authentic, just needs to be sent in for a look and if I had it, I would at least invest in the money to see what comes out of it – yes we have a problem in this hobby with many autographs. I have bought and sold a lot over the years, but its statements, like on this post that make me not want to say anything on this board. The problem is that no one wants to do that extra step of sending autographs in for a look – instead they go on boards like this first and Jeff you had every right to ask. Board members are here to help – but it’s hard to give any kind of opinion when there is always responses like this. Yes it would be a possibility that some of them had been added to look good, but that is why we have to see items in person too! Take it to PSA and SGC or even JSA and just see what they say

Jimmy

Not trying to be argumentative, BUT what if he sent it to PSA and they said it was authentic? Does that make it any less fake?

Posting here for opinions is EXACTLY (for the most part) what this board is for! And you did state "Great looking Autos - send to SGC or PSA for a COA!", not "I'm not sure. Send it along with a few hundred dollars and take a chance to see if they disagree with the Net54 experts."

[shelly]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

Nice piece, absolutely authentic.

Do you still think it is absolutely authentic.

[parker1b2]

Not to go off topic here, but I want to again thank everyone on this board as I am learning a ton, and getting better at spotting fakes. When I first saw this posting the Grove stuck out to me as looking off, but I didn't post anything. I have been collecting for about 25 years now since I was 11 years old, but until about the last 5 years most of my autos came from signings at shows. Since joining the boards I have really taken my collecting to another level for myself, as really getting into more vintage stuff ( I'm addicted now). So just wanted to say thanks, sorry for going off the topic.

[GrayGhost]

I'm not an expert by far, but several signatures on that sheet look off to me, esp the Grove. I also don't care for the C in Joe Cronin or some of the Jimmie Foxx.

[Runscott]

I only examined 6-7 of them before posting initially, and because all were bad, I didn't look at the rest.

My initial post in this thread was intended to get Jeff to go through the same exercise I did.

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by shelly

Do you still think it is absolutely authentic.

In light of other learned opinions, I suppose not, but I'm not going to get into arguments about it.

It would appear I could have been wrong with my initial assessment.

[jbsports33]

Well, I guess there was some confusion to what I said and there seems to be no trust in the COA companies on this board or at least some of the members from this post. Sorry if my statement was mis-leading and I thought the COA companies had some credit in the Autograph hobby. I will be honest, I am mostly a card guy and always have been, but over the years have had my experiences with autographs. Something needs to change in the autograph business if there are things going on that I am learning from this post – sorry I came off strong at times, but the fact is sometimes it can be hard to say anything on this board. I guess you learn from participating as Leon said in his post, I think next time – my responses will not be as long and confusing. I fully understand the comments Mark mentioned and it was not my intention to say to everyone – they need to blow their money on a COA

Jimmy

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jbsports33

Well, I guess there was some confusion to what I said and there seems to be no trust in the COA companies on this board or at least some of the members from this post. Sorry if my statement was mis-leading and I thought the COA companies had some credit in the Autograph hobby. I will be honest, I am mostly a card guy and always have been, but over the years have had my experiences with autographs. Something needs to change in the autograph business if there are things going on that I am learning from this post – sorry I came off strong at times, but the fact is sometimes it can be hard to say anything on this board. I guess you learn from participating as Leon said in his post, I think next time – my responses will not be as long and confusing. I fully understand the comments Mark mentioned and it was not my intention to say to everyone – they need to blow their money on a COA

Jimmy

Jimmy, I don't think you come off too strong, or that you need to worry about responding. If you think it's "hard to say anything on this board" and don't feel like putting out the effort, that's up to you, but the only thing difficult that you have to worry about is analyzing your audience prior to speaking. If you don't feel like doing that, then just realize that you might get some strong disagreement if you are in the minority, but that, like the rest of us, it's the internet and unless things devolve into a battle of name-calling, most of us will forget it.

I also think that there was Zero confusion about what you said. You simply stated things that astounded some of us.

And finally, your black-or-white statement that there "there seems to be no trust in the COA companies on this board or at least some of the members from this post" is a distortion of what we have said. A truer statement would be that YOU seem to place complete trust in the COA companies to do your thinking for you. To sum up succinctly: sending this garbage to a TPA would be a waste of time and money. Going to the TPA's before you go here is your option. Going to the TPA's after reading this thread would be just plain stupid - yes, they might put a COA on it (but I doubt it), but it WILL NOT MAKE IT REAL.

Talk with you soon, I'm sure.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

In light of other learned opinions, I suppose not, but I'm not going to get into arguments about it.

It would appear I could have been wrong with my initial assessment.

My apologies for responding so strongly. These items exist for a reason and a lot of very intelligent collectors have owned some of them.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

In light of other learned opinions, I suppose not, but I'm not going to get into arguments about it.

It would appear I could have been wrong with my initial assessment.

It takes a strong person to admit they where mistaken

[nolemmings]

I'm not an autograph guy and have no problems with the opinions expressed in this thread, but was still wondering a couple of things.

1. Is it the consensus that all of these signatures are bogus? I too saw the similarity of several signatures--Mellilo and Higgins, the F's in Foxx and Fritz, most of the capital "J's" etc, but wondered if any of them are legit.

2. Suppose some are legit on a piece like this, and that even if some were ghost signed it was not done for any real malevolent purpose (like Pinky saying "hey Oscar sign for me too, I'm eating"). Does the presence of some or even mostly all bad sigs torpedo the value of the entire item? Would it be better from a value statement to just salvage and cut out the good signatures?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by cavaliercards

A customer whose husband passed, just brought this into the store as she found it in his desk when cleaning it out. The item measures 5.5" x 8"

Interested in opinions on value and/or authenticity.
Thanks, Jeff

Jeff, this is a no-brainer: pick out a few 'big names' on this piece;e.g-Foxx,Grove,Pennock, and then try to find any exemplar that closely matches any of them. Or even easier, just try to find a close match to the first letter in any of their first or last names.

The paper, folds and pin-holes look excellent.

[Runscott]

...new reply, as I don't like editing

The names on this sheet are basically the 1933 Philadelphia Athletics (with additions), so look for exemplars of the bigger names, from that time-frame.

1930's Lefty Grove exemplars should be easy to find.

[djson1]

It seems many on here are convinced this is authentic, but IMHO, I thought many of the names appear to be written in the same hand.