1951 Wheaties Premiums

[whiteymet]

Hi Craig and Graig

Thanks for all the info! We are finally getting down to the gist of my question.

But I am seeing conflicting thoughts/theories/info from the both of you.

Graig says " definitely not '51!" and Craig says "and what I can see of his body all shout 1951.

Support for 1952 comes from a Type I print with a 1952 date stamp (which if I remember correctly was from October supporting Graig's contention)"

Graig: GREAT info on the patches extending into the WS in 51 and not 52. Dating with the ads will really help. Looking forward to it, but enjoy your vacation until then!

Craig:

You go on to say " one definitive way to date the photo would be some hard evidence as to when the 1951 Wheaties series was created - Feb, March, April of '51 or after September 1952?"

This is actually what I am trying to ascertain. IF the photo is from the 52 World Series then the Wheaties set can not be from 1951, but rather has to be later. Of course even if the photo is from 1951 does not mean the Wheaties set was issued in 1951 or even 1952 for that matter. It could have been issued any year later! This goes back to my argument of why Wheaties would include Mantle in a 1951 set. More on this an comparing other players in the set can be found in the postwar section discussion found here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=175675

where one of the issues is, it is dated circa 1955 in the Getty archives!

I hope one of you EXPERTS will be able to come up with a definitive answer on when the photo was taken, and we will be able to answer at least if the set was issued in 1951 or not. Then the question is, is it a Wheaties issue and we start all over again!! :>)

Thanks again for all your help/research/thoughts!

Fred

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Hi Craig and Graig

Thanks for all the info! We are finally getting down to the gist of my question.

But I am seeing conflicting thoughts/theories/info from the both of you.

Graig says " definitely not '51!" and Craig says "and what I can see of his body all shout 1951.

Support for 1952 comes from a Type I print with a 1952 date stamp (which if I remember correctly was from October supporting Graig's contention)"

Graig: GREAT info on the patches extending into the WS in 51 and not 52. Dating with the ads will really help. Looking forward to it, but enjoy your vacation until then!

Craig:

You go on to say " one definitive way to date the photo would be some hard evidence as to when the 1951 Wheaties series was created - Feb, March, April of '51 or after September 1952?"

This is actually what I am trying to ascertain. IF the photo is from the 52 World Series then the Wheaties set can not be from 1951, but rather has to be later. Of course even if the photo is from 1951 does not mean the Wheaties set was issued in 1951 or even 1952 for that matter. It could have been issued any year later! This goes back to my argument of why Wheaties would include Mantle in a 1951 set. More on this an comparing other players in the set can be found in the postwar section discussion found here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=175675

where one of the issues is, it is dated circa 1955 in the Getty archives!

I hope one of you EXPERTS will be able to come up with a definitive answer on when the photo was taken, and we will be able to answer at least if the set was issued in 1951 or not. Then the question is, is it a Wheaties issue and we start all over again!! :>)

Thanks again for all your help/research/thoughts!

Fred

Hi Fred,

Well, I believe I've solved the date issue for the Wheaties Mantle photo. In my previous post I mentioned that the photo was definitely taken by Yankee photographer Don Wingfield at Ebbets Field. I checked with Henry Yee and he confirmed both statements. We also both agreed that the photo was from either 1951 or 1952.

I finally found the photo I mentioned that had an Oct 1952 date on the back. Indeed it was taken by Wingfield on Oct. 6, 1952 at the WS at Ebbets Field as Graig had suggested. So if this is true the chances of the Wheaties Mantle "card" being produced in 1951 is not looking good.

Hope all this helps.

Cheers,

Craig

[Bob Lemke]

Maybe it's just me, and maybe it's because I'm only looking at scans, but that looks to me like the Mantle image was superimposed on the stadium background.

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

Maybe it's just me, and maybe it's because I'm only looking at scans, but that looks to me like the Mantle image was superimposed on the stadium background.

No Bob, this image is unaltered and printed from the original negative.

Craig

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Frozen in Time

Hi Fred,

Well, I believe I've solved the date issue for the Wheaties Mantle photo. In my previous post I mentioned that the photo was definitely taken by Yankee photographer Don Wingfield at Ebbets Field. I checked with Henry Yee and he confirmed both statements. We also both agreed that the photo was from either 1951 or 1952.

I finally found the photo I mentioned that had an Oct 1952 date on the back. Indeed it was taken by Wingfield on Oct. 6, 1952 at the WS at Ebbets Field as Graig had suggested. So if this is true the chances of the Wheaties Mantle "card" being produced in 1951 is not looking good.

Hope all this helps.

Cheers,

Craig

Hey Craig:

GREAT detective work! Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the year of issue. Now we know it can not be a 1951 set!

As I mentioned over on the postwar section my belief is it is much more likely to be a 1954/55 issue due to the inclusion of three of the 1954 AL Champion Indians. Maybe Bob Lemke can shed some light on the origins of this set and how it came to be known (now erroneously) as a 1951 Wheaties set.

Thanks again for your hard work.

Fred

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Hey Craig:

GREAT detective work! Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the year of issue. Now we know it can not be a 1951 set!

As I mentioned over on the postwar section my belief is it is much more likely to be a 1954/55 issue due to the inclusion of three of the 1954 AL Champion Indians. Maybe Bob Lemke can shed some light on the origins of this set and how it came to be known (now erroneously) as a 1951 Wheaties set.

Thanks again for your hard work.

Fred

Hey Bob:

How about it? Do you have any recollection of when this set showed up in the hobby? How did it get the designation of 1951 and as a Wheaties issue?

I understand that SOME of the same photos were used in the 1952 Wheaties set, and some thought it to be a test for that set. But now that we know it can't be a 1951 issue I am wondering how it all started.

Any light you can shed would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Fred

[Bob Lemke]

Sorry, I can't remember who first brought the set to our attention, when or how it was tied to Wheaties.

Someone with a run of Standard Catalogs could date the "discovery" by its first inclusion in the big book.