Regarding the SOVEREIGN "apple green" back phenomena....some interesting stuff

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Come on Tim. A lot of us know you and Jim used info Ted researched as your own but he don't bring that up every time you post more info. Just drop it already and stop stirring the pot. WE all are constantly solving the great hobby mysteries. Why can't it just be a conjoined effort on your guys behalf?

I don't think this accusation is accurate Andrew, because I for one can clearly see that Tim and Ted have quite a few different views when it comes to T206's. Also, Tim and Jim's webiste has an extensive contributor list, their information came from many different places. I think you'd have to explain exactly what information you are refering to, which I don't think you can.

I agree with your last statement, it would be nice if everyone got along (and agreed to disagree) but that's out of my hands, I mentioned in a thread a long time ago that I felt an apology was owed but after that I've just stayed out of it all.

But, I don't agree with your accustaion. If that were the case, wouldn't Tim and Ted agree on everything?

Sincerely, Clayton

*edit to add , was writing this before the post above mine ^^^^, not that it changes anything I've said.

[g_vezina_c55]

I am relatively a new member on this forum and until now i don t know anything about your different etc.

But i want to tell 1 thing to you Ted, i appreciate all your post and your research, each time you post a T206 thread i read it and follow it with all my atention. I learn many thing in the hobby with your contribution here.
Thanks.

[tedzan]

Nelson

Thanks for your very kind words.

Best regards,

TED Z

[cfc1909]

Ted

All information on T206Resource is credited on an "About Us " page, its not Tim's site.

We all shared info privately and you were included in that info and some how it turns out to be your research and posted publicly on 54.

I myself did the sovereign list and I did make a mistake and it was fixed, I didn't fake scans to make myself correct. Its how you handle the mistakes that has separated us. I didn't copy your list or I would have had 151 Sovereign 150s. Remember the Crawford you claimed to own is another front back combo that does not exist.

If you are called on something it is called an attempt to discredit, just the other day when you realized Russell was a life long bachelor we need to here a story how he was a "ladies man" and each time you tell the story the number of cards that you acquired from a great grand daughter that does not exist.

A friendship has turned sour over bad info being challenged. We shared the new information on the composition of the set with you and everyone. It is on the site if you wish to know it but it is clear by your posts you have not read it or do not understand it.


You have a collection to be proud of you don't need to make it sound better by creating stories. You don't need to claim to have all 75 American Beauty 460s, 40 or 50 is pretty special.

Your desire to be looked at as the know it all about baseball cards has ruined your reputation. You alone have done this, no one else.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by cfc1909

Your desire to be looked at as the know it all about baseball cards has ruined your reputation. You alone have done this, no one else.

Jim, none of what you stated above is true.

It is not easy forgetting past problems, and quite obviously it isn't going to happen by one person making the effort - it's going to take that entire group, and perhaps that really is too much to ask. But I can assure you, regardless of whose fault any of it was, all the other T206 collectors on the board would like to see it happen.

I have apologized to some real idiots before, when I didn't feel I was as much to blame (or even at all). 9 out of 10 times, everything was great afterward, so it was worth it. Seriously, if all the people you think are dicks, were all of a sudden your friends and caused you no angst, wouldn't that be better?

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

What "objectionable actions leading to misinformation" are you talking about, Tim ?

I’m not dredging up the Nicholls that occurred two years ago. Similar situations have played out more than once since then, with the last as recent as the 2012 National. I can go into these in greater detail if you prefer, but my suggestion is that it would be to your benefit to move on rather than really drag this out.

Originally Posted by tedzan

But DAMN it, he took my SOVEREIGN 350-only NO-PRINT list and included it into his website and did not have the professional courtesy to credit me.

Anyone comparing the checklists that you have posted on Net54 to those on our website will find that they are very different. We have a number of confirmed cards that you don’t, but most important we have a large number unconfirmed that you have confirmed. The checklists do not match. If me, or anyone else involved in the site were going to copy your work, why would we leave so much out? Why didn’t we confirm a Sovereign 350 until August of 2012 that you have had on your list since at least 2011.

Long before T206Resource.com was in the works, I spent a great deal of time looking at your checklists, adding to them and removing mistakes. This was not done for the purpose of using your work (nor was that done) but rather to help you. I passed along this information to you in the interest of collaboration.

You previously listed Doc White (Portrait) Sovereign 350 as a no-print until I advised you that it existed and shared a scan with you. I also posted a John Frill scan of an AB460 when you listed it as a no-print. When you needed 11 additional subjects to complete the Sweet Caporal 350/460 No.42OP list, I provided you scans of all eleven. I most importantly helped to remove numerous bad confirmations from your lists. Does this sound like a plagiarist? If I was copying your lists and not working on my own, how would I know about your many mistakes?

If I were going to plagiarize anyone, Ted would literally be the last person in the hobby I would consider. Beyond the known made up cards that would make me take pause, there is work like this example. In a Sweet Caporal 350/460 No.42 No OP survey I did in 2010 he confirmed 26 cards in the survey and 21 turned out to be no good. Again, why would I have any faith, to place my name, on work like that?

A big portion of the information on our site is based on the idea of print groups. This is a concept Ted has either ignored, or doesn’t understand. He’s never addressed them and his posts still reflect the concepts of the set prior to us learning about them. They are the foundation for the set and explaining its order. Whether he doesn’t understand them, doesn’t know about them or doesn’t believe they are correct, there is no way we could have copied this from him based on any premise.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Strictly put, Tim is a PLAGIARIZER. And, in recent years he has posted stuff that he has gleaned from other Net54 members; and, has failed to give them credit.

Ted, like many of the things you post, simply putting it out there does not make it true. Anyone that has worked with me or contacted the website can attest that I go out of my way to give people credit. Every person on our contributors list can back me up on that. I have never had a Net54 member contact me and say that I took credit for their work.

Originally Posted by tedzan

For the better part of this past year (or more), I've tried to take the "high road" and not speak out. However, Tim's continuing negative comments (unsolicited)towards me everytime I post something on T206's has to cease & desist.

Ted-A majority of the time we butt heads over baseball card issues. We are both passionate about the same baseball card set and have very different opinions about a lot of it. When you post something that I believe to be inaccurate, I respond with what I believe is correct. You don’t see this as a baseball card discussion; you see it as a personal attack. Due to the amount of bad information you put out there, it seems like I am “attacking” you personally a lot. Nothing could be further from the truth. The way you handle people taking a different position than yours ruins the discussion. Anyone who has been paying attention over the years knows that I’ve been on the high road looking down at you for a long time. So please don't play that card now. You're not a victim. I do not respond to untruths or bad information until you post it.

I acknowledged earlier in this thread that my pointing out Jim’s discovering the correlation between the Sovereign 350 apple green and the subjects they were printed with was a tad petty. But it was accurate.

I have informed you in a private email and will reiterate it here publicly. Plagiarism is a very strong accusation and something that I am not guilty of. I am warning you for the last time to cease saying that about me.

Ideally everyone would get a long and work for the greater good. I've tried moving on several times but the lies just keep on coming. They eventually get the best of me and I speak out. I'll keep them to myself moving forward and stick strictly to the card information. If that isn't accurate, I will post about it for the knowledge of other collectors.

[DerekMichael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn_ZdX6nQvw

[RCMcKenzie]

So, would the t206 Harry Steinfeldt road apple green sovereign card command a premium?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by DerekMichael

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn_ZdX6nQvw

Two minutes and twelve seconds of "well worth it" watching of history. Kids today just won't ever see it, I am afraid, but I digress.

I do hope, as Rodney King said, "can't we all get along?" And then as the Beatles said, "We can work it out." We have discussed things that happened a long time ago over and over. In that regard Any misinformation put forth to the public isn't good for the hobby, whatever source it comes from and whenever it came out, or comes out.
If someone puts bad info out in our forum, I hope others will politely correct that person, each and every time. Definitely, if I ever say anything that is incorrect, I want to be corrected. (politely please).
Hopefully we can continue to have friendly and professional debates on printing and characteristics of the Monster. I do agree too, that just because anyone disagrees with someone else, doesn't make them a bad person. As long as everything gets said in a respectful manner then there should be no problem.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

I am relatively a new member on this forum and until now i don t know anything about your different etc.

But i want to tell 1 thing to you Ted, i appreciate all your post and your research, each time you post a T206 thread i read it and follow it with all my atention. I learn many thing in the hobby with your contribution here.
Thanks.

BIG plus one

[sdkammeyer]

Regardless of who gets or wants credit ..... Thanks to everyone for this thread.
I just picked up my first apple green sovereign and I was glad to find this thread to shed some light, and have the opportunity to educate myself a little on the subject.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I don't think this accusation is accurate Andrew, because I for one can clearly see that Tim and Ted have quite a few different views when it comes to T206's. Also, Tim and Jim's webiste has an extensive contributor list, their information came from many different places. I think you'd have to explain exactly what information you are refering to, which I don't think you can.

I agree with your last statement, it would be nice if everyone got along (and agreed to disagree) but that's out of my hands, I mentioned in a thread a long time ago that I felt an apology was owed but after that I've just stayed out of it all.

But, I don't agree with your accustaion. If that were the case, wouldn't Tim and Ted agree on everything?

Sincerely, Clayton

*edit to add , was writing this before the post above mine ^^^^, not that it changes anything I've said.

Get the past history between these guys and it will make good sense.