(Said in a Seinfeld voice) What's the deal with 1969 high numbers??

[JollyElm]

In general, it's known that the high numbers are the toughest cards to find for most sets. Just thinking of the highs from 1961, 1962, 1966, 1967 and 1972 give normal people the willies. And the reasons are pretty straight forward. The cards were released later in the season and as young boys' fancies turned to football, basketball and hockey cards, etc., less of them were sold.

But in certain years (most notably to me, 1968 and 1969) the high numbers are really simple to come by. Why is that? Didn't Topps follow their traditional release patterns, quantities issued, and on and on? Or did they issue the cards sooner and in greater quantities, allowing everyone to grab a ton of them?

Anyone have any specific insight into this phenomenon? Why were things different those years??

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

In general, it's known that the high numbers are the toughest cards to find for most sets. Just thinking of the highs from 1961, 1962, 1966, 1967 and 1972 give normal people the willies. And the reasons are pretty straight forward. The cards were released later in the season and as young boys' fancies turned to football, basketball and hockey cards, etc., less of them were sold.

But in certain years (most notably to me, 1968 and 1969) the high numbers are really simple to come by. Why is that? Didn't Topps follow their traditional release patterns, quantities issued, and on and on? Or did they issue the cards sooner and in greater quantities, allowing everyone to grab a ton of them?

Anyone have any specific insight into this phenomenon? Why were things different those years??

Don't forget to include the 52 and 53 Topps high numbers on your list of highs that give normal people the "willies". IMO, the 1970 highs are almost as tough as the 72s. Not as tough, but still more challenging than 68s and 69s are the 59s, 60s, 62s, 63s and 64s high #s. Some of the 71 SPs can be tough too.

My "guess" is that there are far more 68 and 69 highs due to the fact they were produced in greater quantities than were 61s, 66-67s, and 72s. 1965's highs are also, for the most part, simple to come by....again, my guess is greater quantities were produced than both 64s and 66s high # cards as they are tougher.

[onlyvintage62]

Remember, print runs for each series were based upon sales of previous series. Perhaps the previous series sold in greater quantities that previous years. Especially in the case of 1969 with the four new teams being added.

[skil55voy]

The observations are well taken. Part of the problem could be the distribution channels at the time. I grew up in Detroit. In the 60's the first series of a particular year usually showed up in April. Then of course the next series was staggered and so on. As a kid from packs I had almost a complete set of 61's. The 7th Series made it to my stores in late August. I had a full set of 62's. All series were relatively available. In 63 I never saw the 4th series. In 64 I never saw the 5th series. In 65 I had a full set. My friends and I were in our neighborhood market when the 7th Series arrived. In 66 and 67 no 7th Series.
In 68 I was again able to complete my set. I ordered the later series from Topps in 70 and 71. The wholesalers were the ones. The guy who owned my neighborhood market would drive to the wholesalers and pick up his stock. I remember him saying in 66 that when he went in late August all he could bring back was football cards. The 63 set was particularly dry. Never saw cards after July.

[ALR-bishop]

Olberman has some SCD articles on the 68 and 69 sets in which he notes Topps was using old photos until the 5th series or so in 69 due to disputes with the rising Marvin Miller and the Player's Association seeking bigger licensing fees. I guess timing and production numbers may have been affected, and after agreement was reached maybe Topps went to town with new photos in the later series cards in 69. Old photos in 68 may have led to earlier production of late series cards in greater numbers ? Here is one copy of the Olberman articles

http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/1969-topps/

[savedfrommyspokes]

Several years back, I purchased on ebay a group of late 60s early 70s OPC cards from a seller in Canada. Included with this group were several 100 69 Topps cards from the last two series. The only twist with these 69s is that they were either cut by the dullest blade Topps had in their factory OR the cards were cut by the same dull blades OPC typically used to cut their sheets. Having nearly completed the 68 and up OPC sets, these poor cuts are quite familiar. Also, having handled 1000s and 1000s of 69s over the years, I rarely come across any that have an OPC type cut.

Anyway, could it be that Topps produced extra cards and sent them north of the border for distribution by OPC? If this is the case was this done due to the fact Topps had excess because supply was greater than demand OR was it done as a test in Canada to see how later series cards would sell in Canada? In the following years, OPC expanded their set sizes...in 1971, the OPC set was 752 cards.

Perhaps Topps produced extra of these last three series to send to Canada, especially since the last three series of 69s had Expo players pictured in their uniforms.

[rats60]

I grew up in California during the 60s. I started collecting in 1967. I was able to complete the set up through the 6th series, but the 7th series never showed up in stores. We had more 6th series cards than any other series. In 1968 I was able to complete the set with out a problem. Same for the 1969 set. I remember buying 6th and 7th series cards in early to mid August when we were on vacation in Illinois. In 1970, I remember 4th series cards being available in August. 7th series cards didn't show up until we were back in school in September.

I feel that Topps was able to get their cards out earlier in the year in 68 and 69, resulting in greater sales while kids were out of school and chasing baseball cards. In other years, cards coming out later in the year, when kids were back in school, resulted in lower sales for 7th series cards. Stores and wholesalers would be buying fewer boxes knowing that kids wouldn't be buying much once back in school.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Several years back, I purchased on ebay a group of late 60s early 70s OPC cards from a seller in Canada. Included with this group were several 100 69 Topps cards from the last two series. The only twist with these 69s is that they were either cut by the dullest blade Topps had in their factory OR the cards were cut by the same dull blades OPC typically used to cut their sheets. Having nearly completed the 68 and up OPC sets, these poor cuts are quite familiar. Also, having handled 1000s and 1000s of 69s over the years, I rarely come across any that have an OPC type cut.

Anyway, could it be that Topps produced extra cards and sent them north of the border for distribution by OPC? If this is the case was this done due to the fact Topps had excess because supply was greater than demand OR was it done as a test in Canada to see how later series cards would sell in Canada? In the following years, OPC expanded their set sizes...in 1971, the OPC set was 752 cards.

Perhaps Topps produced extra of these last three series to send to Canada, especially since the last three series of 69s had Expo players pictured in their uniforms.

I can't say about the late 60's, but I do know that in the late 70's distribution in Canada was pretty strange. We took a trip driving across the US in 78 with a few parts in Canada. I bought 78 OPC somewhere between Niagara Falls and Sault st Marie. When we got to Glacier park, the gift shop on the Canadian side had 77s, when I mentioned to the person working the gift shop that it was cool they had last years cards she replied a bit surprised, saying they'd only just gotten them a couple days ago.

So eastern was pretty up to date, western maybe a year behind.

[geosluggo]

Interesting thread addressing something I've always wondered about. Many of the explanations sound plausible but I'd love to see official data on how many cards were printed in each series and when each series were released. I recall the first series of 1973 coming out in January in the Washington, D.C. area.

When I was a kid in the '70s and '80s I put together sets going back to 1968 and remember having no trouble with high numbers in '68 or '69, but the 1970-1972 high numbers were much tougher. During the last decade, I've completed the 1960 through 1967 sets. When I embarked on the 1967 set I probably had three-quarters of the lower number cards from my childhood collection but only two cards in the last series. I found the last series was tough in 1961-63 and 1966 but not in 1964 or 1965. I'm drawing a blank on how difficult the 1960 high numbers were. I also completed the 1956 and 1957 sets a few years ago. The last series in 1956 was slightly tougher but not significantly so; for 1957, the hardest cards to find are in the next-to-last series.

[JTysver]

I started looking up birth rates and set sizes and thought that there should be some correlation to the distribution. However, I pretty much realized that Topps probably was doing some marketing in a sense, but were not basing distribution upon the number of births etc. I think it is as simple as Topps probably released 1961 high numbers too late and realized that mistake and fixed it the following year.
We have to remember, Topps was the only game in town and they were feeling their way through the business end of things back then.

Topps probably was constantly playing with the dates and distribution to see what worked best and stretched the dates back in 1966 after having sold them too early in 1965. My guess is that their September sales or even August sales numbers dropped off a bit in 1965 because kids already bought what they wanted. After feeling their way through it, they probably decided to make an earlier distribution date again for the later series in 1968.