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  #1  
Old 03-14-2009, 05:32 PM
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Posted By: James Gallo

So I would like some opinions about something that happened to me today at the Philly show.

I purchased a card from a well known auction house about a month ago for $250 after BP. Upon receiving the card I thought the boarders were a bit off, but seeing as the card was in low grade and that this set can have odd cuts I figured I would just get it graded and if there was a problem deal with it then.

Here was the description of the card from the auction

"Very rough card may have had a tear repaired near the center. Card has extensive creasing, a scrape on the back and general wear."

When I looked over the pictures and especially after I got the card I knew there was no repair to the card and expected it to grade an SGC 10.

I submitted it to SGC today to get it on site graded at a cost of $35.

Later in the day they proceeded to tell me that the card was in fact trimmed on the top and bottom.

I went over to the dealer and talked to him about the issue, and requested a $75 refund and that I keep the card. The firs thing out of his mouth was that I should let PSA grade it and that he only deals with PSA and does not believe SGC. Needless to say we went back and forth for a while as this card in a PSA holder does me no good. He also tried to tell me that based on the description that I shouldn't have expected anything other then an authentic grade anyway.

After going back to SGC to clear up that fact that there was no tear repair and that is was not getting a SGC 10 grade specifically because it was trimmed the dealer finally offered to give me a refund of my purchase price but refused to pay the grading fee. I didn't feel this was right as the card could be put in a SGC authentic holder and that the that cost should be covered as well. The dealer refused and I kept the card and walked away a very unhappy customer.

So my question is should the dealer have just given me the $75 refund from the start and or covered the grading fee if he was taking the card back. I didn't see any reason I should be stuck wasting a $35 grading fee especially on a card I was not keeping. To me it was not the $35 but the fact that I had to argue with this dealer about several issues including what he felt that card would grade at and that because he doesn't like SGC there opinion does count. It was the first time I have had an issue like this and no matter what I will not deal with this seller again.

Ironically, I had heard some negative things about this seller and instead of gaining a customer he has alienated yet another collector.

So what do you think, how far should a dealer go to make the customer happy and where should the liability lie in this case?

Thanks

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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  #2  
Old 03-14-2009, 05:39 PM
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Posted By: rand

i dont know what the card is worth in an A holder. if its more than the $250 you paid then fine, if not, take your $250, and you are ahead. nobody asked you to spend $35 on getting it graded but it was worth the investment since the dealer was there to get your money back. the $35 is worth that aggravation. sometimes you win and loose on cards, i have made money and lost money, i am sure you had a card at some point you bought cheap and did well. its part of the game. regards

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  #3  
Old 03-14-2009, 05:45 PM
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Posted By: James Gallo

Rand,

Its not the value of the card it's the principle of making the cutomer happy and there shouldn't have been any agravation to begin with. The card is worth about 50-75 less with the down grade.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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  #4  
Old 03-14-2009, 05:53 PM
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Posted By: Fred C

I figure if the card was trashed to begin with and there was a possible trim repair then I would have only expected to see the card in an AUTH holder, at best. Since the card wasn't repaired it could have gotten an SGC10 except it was trimmed which means the best it could get was an AUTH. I'd have been happy with the AUTH label because of the initial expectation.

The only thing the dealer did that seemed wrong was indicate that he didn't trust SGC and that PSA should have graded it. I think that borders on being criminally stupid. Oh well, just my opinion.

I'd just keep the card and let there be no hard feelings. I'd rather enjoy the card than have it remind me of a negative transaction every time I looked at it.

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  #5  
Old 03-14-2009, 05:58 PM
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Posted By: rand

you bought the card ungraded with a desciption that easily could have warranted an A grade. if the card was gradeable the dealer would have had it graded because he also knows its worth more in a 1 holder. so you gambled, this time it didnt work out. i wanted to buy a used car once, before i did i brought to a mechanic and spent $35 for an inspection. i didnt buy the car, so $35 saved me $4000 and alot of headaches. if you didnt like the card and he refunded you it would be fine. you decided you needed 3rd party authentification and right away, so why should the dealer be on the hook, he didnt promise it would grade a 10. i understand if he was rude, but we are talking about dollars and cents. if the card got a 20 would you have thanked the dealer for selling you a great card?

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  #6  
Old 03-14-2009, 06:00 PM
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Posted By: Fred C

Just out of curiosity, was the card an E90-1?

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  #7  
Old 03-14-2009, 06:03 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Looking at the card I wouldn't have expected that to grade anything but Authentic. The seller also doesn't state that it will grade and you bought it as is. IMO you should let it go.

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  #8  
Old 03-14-2009, 06:08 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree that you should not have expected more than an Authentic, albeit for a different reason. But the seller showed poor customer skills, so I might stay away from him in the future.

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  #9  
Old 03-14-2009, 06:09 PM
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Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

I would prolly side with the dealer since he offered a full refund. If your not happy with it return it, the dealers not responsible if you win or lose in the grading game or the fees spent trying. His description sounds like an auth in any case.

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  #10  
Old 03-14-2009, 06:36 PM
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Posted By: bigfish

I am not sure what more you want from the seller? Full refund? What else do you want?

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  #11  
Old 03-14-2009, 08:07 PM
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Posted By: James Gallo

Fred- I knew by the pictures that card was not torn or repaired so I expected a SGC 10, therefore my expectations were not met because the card was altered.

I expected better customer service and the refund was only offered after 20 minutes of arguing.

I bought a group of cards in a Huggins and Scott auction, one of the major cards in the lot came back trimmed by SGC. BIll talked to me right away and offered me a nice credit to his future auctions. There was no discussion it was not a problem and I didn't get the run around.

It should be this simple, I shouldn't have to go back and forth.

That being said even if it seems that most of you don't agree, I do think there is a big difference between buying a low grade card that is trimmed and one that isn't and I am surprised that many of you don't seem to agree with me.

I wonder if this was a high dollar card if the opinions would differ.

If I was in the seller's place I think I would have given the $75 refund without a discussion and argument and that would have been that.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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  #12  
Old 03-14-2009, 08:14 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

The thing is so beat that I'm not sure why anyone would trim it. Just from looking at it I'm not even sure how anyone could expect to get a number grade on the card...even the auction description says that it may have been repaired which would automatically disqualify it from getting a number grade. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill on this one.

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  #13  
Old 03-14-2009, 08:31 PM
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Posted By: Fred C

James,

You may have thought that the card would have came back a "1" but the seller must have thought differetly. I can't speak for that person but from the item description I would have made that assumption. What would have happened if the seller was right? The best you could have got was an AUTH. Would that have been acceptable? I know when someone tells me a card has issues I'll take that selelr at face value and consider that into the price I would be willing to pay for the card.

"I expected better customer service and the refund was only offered after 20 minutes of arguing." - No aruguing about that. Customer service is what brings back repeat business.

"I bought a group of cards in a Huggins and Scott auction, one of the major cards in the lot came back trimmed by SGC. BIll talked to me right away and offered me a nice credit to his future auctions. There was no discussion it was not a problem and I didn't get the run around." - Huggins and Scott is a fine auction house. One time I had an issue with a card I won from them and they took care of business. That's why people like them!

"I wonder if this was a high dollar card if the opinions would differ." James, if this were a high dollar card I bet you (as most people) would have scrutinized it a bit more.

"If I was in the seller's place I think I would have given the $75 refund without a discussion and argument and that would have been that." I'm just curious, what was the card? Do you think you could sell it for $285 in the AUTH holder?

I guess you can look at it like most of us don't agree with you but you could look at it like this - it's just our opinion and we're not trying to make you feel like you're sub-human because you don't agree with us. I figure you asked for opinions and you'd rather know what people felt than have people candy coat it and lie to you. happy.gif Who knows, the next time you may come out way ahead on one of these auctions. Sometimes you're the bug and sometimes you're the windshield. It's still early yet, there's only been a few opinions posted.










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  #14  
Old 03-14-2009, 08:32 PM
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Posted By: rand

why post your problem if you dont want other people's opinions? why not just admit you thought you were smarter than the auctioneer? you thought you would get a bargain and you are pissed because the under bidder ran up the final price. after reading your last post, it is obvious you are stubborn and perhaps you were rude to the seller first. thats why he argued with you and finally decided to give you a refund because its not worth having you bid with him in the future.

please admit you gambled on this card and it didnt go your way. trust me, if the card could have been made more valuable (hence grading) he would have done it.

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Old 03-14-2009, 10:27 PM
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Posted By: James Gallo

Rand,

I have no idea who you are and I don't recognize you at all as a frequent poster. I have no idea why you are coming at me so hard, but whatever your entitled to an opinion especially since I asked for them.

I was extremely nice to the seller but when someone spits in your face you get pissed. Also I wasn't after a bargain I was after a card that was properly advertised and decent customer service and respect. I didn't get any of these!!

That being said if the card was not trimmed and came back authentic I would not have a problem at all. The problem is that the card was trimmed and this wasn't disclosed. Hell Dan looked at the card for 10 seconds and knew it was trimmed. When I went to address the issue, it was dealt with very poorly.

I was trying to talk to the dealer about the card and he walked away from me. As I stated it took about 20 minutes of back and forth before he even agreed to give a refund at all.

Fred,

No it was not a E90-1 card

I don't think the value of the card was greatly effected by the grade, but it would take a small hit. I am not sure I could get much more then $200 or so out of it. We all know that there is a sigma around authentic cards and there are many people that will still prefer a 10 over an authentic even if the authentic looks nicer.

Dan,

Perhaps I am making a mountain, but I wouldn't have even brought the issue up if it was handled better. You saw me get the run around. That being said as I stated I could tell from the pictures that the card had not been repaired so I had not reason to doubt it would grade even in it's beat up shape.

And don't give me that grading speech either happy.gif

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Old 03-14-2009, 10:41 PM
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Posted By: Jason

Seller offered a full refund and I don't see why they should pay for your grading fee.

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Old 03-14-2009, 10:48 PM
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Posted By: Fred C

James,

You're right about the difference between an AUTH and "1" (or SGC10). What's odd is that people will seek out that numerical grade over the AUTH. I'm becoming more accepting the AUTH label. I think sometimes the grading services miss the mark and assign the AUTH (or reject the card for encapsulation) if they have any doubt. I can't fault them for this. I was really turned into a believer of grading services missing the mark after I picked up a T200 card that was adhered to a book page. I was about 100% certain that the card was in that book for years until I steamed it off. When I turned it in for grading it was rejected for "color being added". I about crapped my pants when I got the card back but I figured oh well, they don't always get it right.

I'll take AUTH OJs if the image is nice and the card doesn't appear to be trimmed. SGC said that they will not assign an AUTH to rebacked OJs. I think that they should give it an AUTH label with a "rebacked" comment. Oops, I'm drifting off topic.

James, could you please post a picture of this card?

Thanks!

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Old 03-14-2009, 10:55 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

James, I didn't see you getting the runaround so I can't comment on that. To me though buying a card in that poor of shape and the dealer stating that it's possible it was repaired should be a clue that the card is probably not going to grade. I can tell it was trimmed, but I don't know how you could tell from the pic that it wasn't repaired.

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Old 03-15-2009, 08:23 AM
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Posted By: rand

James, i have been posting for 3 - 4 years. i just pick and choose when its time to make a comment or create a post. my last post was certainly more directive than the others, that is a direct result of you responding to the many other opinions that you are still right.

at the end of the day, you thought you knew something the auction did not pick up, thus getting a better card than advertised. you spent $250 to prove this to yourself, then an additional $35 to have someone else (sgc) prove you correct. but you did not pay attention to the whole card, just the repair issue.

i bet you can list 100 stories about cards you did come out on top. the guy offered your money and yes you had to work for it, you should have taken the money.

anyhow, no hard feelings, sometimes people dont get it when you pussyfoot around, you may still not agree.

best of luck

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