OMG: Jose Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

With everything these guys have to lose you'd think they put the hard drugs far far away. Drink and drink, use a driver the team would be thrilled to provide.

I know it's not a great thought, but now I look at all the videos of Fernandez going manic in the dugout differently. Was he going back to the bathroom and having a few toots on days he wasn't starting? I have no idea. But certainly makes you wonder.

RIP. None of this makes him a terrible person. Just someone who made some terrible choices.

Who knows. As a rich young single very popular athlete in a city with lots of rich young partyers, maybe he fell in with the wrong crowd. Or maybe it was just an unfortunate one-time thing.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who knows. As a rich young single very popular athlete in a city with lots of rich young partyers, maybe he fell in with the wrong crowd. Or maybe it was just an unfortunate one-time thing.

Perhaps,but people like to argue things are a one time thing versus perhaps someone got away with doing certain behavior without incident until now..

so many reality cop shows are sting operations the perpetrator says 'its my first time' Like 95% of the time, it appears they are arresting people who said its their first time

one of the guys on the boat didnt have cocaine in his system as well so there seemed to be a choice involved..


Theres an issue of who was driving which really does impact a potential settlement. I believe you are only liable up to 600k per person in florida for just being the owner of a boat which was being driven by someone that caused an accident. If you are active driver though, the sky is the limit

[Tripredacus]

I noticed that Topps set all his cards to "Sold Out" in Bunt. That would mean that you can't get them in packs anymore.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have no idea about Fernandez, but for some people coke can be a terrible drug, I had a very close friend in law school who really struggled with it and he was anything but a terrible person.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no idea about Fernandez, but for some people coke can be a terrible drug, I had a very close friend in law school who really struggled with it and he was anything but a terrible person.

That can be true and to boot he probably not responsible in some part for the deaths of two people.

Terrible people make terrible choices, unless you can point to someone we can all agree is a terrible person and see if that person did not make terrible choices.

I contend that all terrible people make terrible choices but not all people that make terrible choices are terrible people..

[ALR-bishop]

I am sending this one to Jack Handey with a note saying "top this one"

[KCRfan1]

I remember hearing an interview years ago, from a former MLB player.

He said that starting pitchers were more susceptible to substance or alcohol abuse. They pitch once a week, twice at best. That leaves A LOT of downtime, something that most position players, since they will play everyday, do not have.

As mentioned previously, life is all about choices though.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

That can be true and to boot he probably not responsible in some part for the deaths of two people.

Terrible people make terrible choices, unless you can point to someone we can all agree is a terrible person and see if that person did not make terrible choices.

I contend that all terrible people make terrible choices but not all people that make terrible choices are terrible people..

and not all people make terrible posts, but some do!

[glynparson]

and yes I mean EVERYONE has made a terrible choice at one point or another in their life. That does not mean any of us deserved to die for a moment of stupidity. I feel for all those that lost their lives these new revelations do not change my feelings that this was tragic.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

I remember hearing an interview years ago, from a former MLB player.

He said that starting pitchers were more susceptible to substance or alcohol abuse. They pitch once a week, twice at best. That leaves A LOT of downtime, something that most position players, since they will play everyday, do not have.

As mentioned previously, life is all about choices though.

Thats a good point..i bet that probably applies to kickers and punters in football too as they have a lot of downtime and its not like there is much of a playbook to look at.

[darwinbulldog]

So most of you guys are on board with contracausal free will? Perhaps it's best if I just post about baseball cards.

[ramram]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

So most of you guys are on board with contracausal free will? Perhaps it's best if I just post about baseball cards.

Oh man, you made be have to look that word up! Now I gotta figure a way to use that word on my wife tonight.

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

I remember hearing an interview years ago, from a former MLB player.

He said that starting pitchers were more susceptible to substance or alcohol abuse. They pitch once a week, twice at best. That leaves A LOT of downtime, something that most position players, since they will play everyday, do not have.

As mentioned previously, life is all about choices though.

Tim Raines, Alan Wiggins, Ron LeFlore, Ken Caminiti, Eddie Mathews, Miguel Cabrera, Daryl Strawberry, Lenny Dykstra, Billy Martin, Mickey Mantle, Jimmie Foxx etc. are all known to have been substance abusers (drugs or alcohol) and none of them were pitchers.
I don't agree with that statement one bit.

[insidethewrapper]

I guess this qualifies Jose to be a a US Posage Stamp someday. Just like the drug addict Elvis. My brother was a big stamp collector until they started putting all these "stars" etc on stamps.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

Tim Raines, Alan Wiggins, Ron LeFlore, Ken Caminiti, Eddie Mathews, Miguel Cabrera, Daryl Strawberry, Lenny Dykstra, Billy Martin, Mickey Mantle, Jimmie Foxx etc. are all known to have been substance abusers (drugs or alcohol) and none of them were pitchers.
I don't agree with that statement one bit.

We'll agree to disagree. i can come up with a list of pitchers as well, but I'm not sure what that solves. I'm sure there are countless players who never made the news or headlines, that had abuses which were kept quiet and privately handled.

The radio interview was with a former player, and I'll give him the benefit of insight to the matter.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

We'll agree to disagree. i can come up with a list of pitchers as well, but I'm not sure what that solves. I'm sure there are countless players who never made the news or headlines, that had abuses which were kept quiet and privately handled.

The radio interview was with a former player, and I'll give him the benefit of insight to the matter.

theres also a bunch more position players on teams than starting pitchers..

[packs]

I don't think I believe that at all. It sounds like some idle hands rhetoric.

[glynparson]

It is not just rhetoric it is actually backed up with facts it's why things like midnight basketball and thriving job markets, after school programs, and community centres that are thriving help to cut down on crime. It does not take a rocket scientist to realize it's harder to get in trouble when you are doing something productive or positive.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by glynparson

It is not just rhetoric it is actually backed up with facts it's why things like midnight basketball and thriving job markets, after school programs, and community centres that are thriving help to cut down on crime. It does not take a rocket scientist to realize it's harder to get in trouble when you are doing something productive or positive.

Also nothing good ever happens during the night after 2 am typically

[ksabet]

Glass houses people

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Also nothing good ever happens during the night after 2 am typically

For my daughter that cut off is 12:30am (she will be 20 this month)...Nothing good happens after that time.....for her anyway....

[packs]

Originally Posted by glynparson

It is not just rhetoric it is actually backed up with facts it's why things like midnight basketball and thriving job markets, after school programs, and community centres that are thriving help to cut down on crime. It does not take a rocket scientist to realize it's harder to get in trouble when you are doing something productive or positive.

I believe all of that when it applies to children. but we were talking about adult professional athletes who aren't pitching on a given day.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Leon

For my daughter that cut off is 12:30am (she will be 20 this month)...Nothing good happens after that time.....for her anyway....

Said EVERY dad with a daughter! Too funny Leon!!

[1952boyntoncollector]

delete

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Whats sad as well is his estate will be sued by both the estates of the the other passengers in his boat if Jose was driving the boat, or if Jose wasn't driving, his estate will be sued by the passenger that was not driving as Jose was the owner of the boat..

You will hear about these lawsuits once the dust settles...

I guess it took 5 months for the dust to settle

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/jo...031729793.html


Here come the lawsuits that people were arguing wouldn't occur. If Jose wasnt driving the boat, since he was the owner he would be responsible for the death of the one passenger that was not driving the boat or if Jose was the driver he would be responsible for both. Would be interested to know as to what kind of insurance there was.

Also in the works is Jose's mother is trying to be in charge of the estate and the current money (with life insurance proceeds an earnings in the 4 million range) and it would not surprise me if money went 'missing' before a judgment is entered. There is also a potential newborn baby in the future. Still the total death claims right now are for about 4 million dollars. Jose's new contract would of been in the 25 million dollar a year range. A sad situation

[1952boyntoncollector]

Looks like there is some decent evidence that Jose Fernandez was operating the boat at the time of the crash and he had drugs in his system. I really dont think there should be schools named after him. He would have been charged for manslaughter had he lived.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...138834953.html

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Looks like there is some decent evidence that Jose Fernandez was operating the boat at the time of the crash and he had drugs in his system. I really dont think there should be schools named after him. He would have been charged for manslaughter had he lived.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...138834953.html

I saw this today as well. It's more than "decent" evidence at this point that he was driving the boat:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/in...t-intoxicated/

[CMIZ5290]

I heard a couple of media reports about this, and there were some people saying, let him rest in peace...why do this to the family?, What's the media doing to the family? I totally disagree with those thoughts. While tragic as this incident is, the truth should be known as an example for our younger kids on what can happen when you think you have it all....This was indeed a tragic event, but it could have been easily avoided....

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

plus he killed two men, what about their families?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

plus he killed two men, what about their families?

I completely disagree with this. 2 people died but he did not kill anybody. They got on the boat on their own free will and knew exactly what could happen.

Seriously how many people in their entire life have not got in a vehicle/boat with a friend that had a cocktail or something else. Now if that would have ended tragically would you want people saying your friend killed you?

[Fred]

Those other two men were big boys that made the decision to go out with him that morning. It sounds like all three were out drinking together and took off in the boat after 2AM. One of the guys had coke in his system (like Jose). It was just a poor choice that all three made.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I completely disagree with this. 2 people died but he did not kill anybody. They got on the boat on their own free will and knew exactly what could happen.

Seriously how many people in their entire life have not got in a vehicle/boat with a friend that had a cocktail or something else. Now if that would have ended tragically would you want people saying your friend killed you?

Right. That's why he drove 70 MPH into a rock embankment...They should have known better..Really?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

plus he killed two men, what about their families?

Exactly

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Fred

Those other two men were big boys that made the decision to go out with him that morning. It sounds like all three were out drinking together and took off in the boat after 2AM. One of the guys had coke in his system (like Jose). It was just a poor choice that all three made.

You would be great on a jury for a defense in any DUI auto accident in which the driver killed the passengers because everyone is a 'big boy'. The article says that jose would of been charged with manslaughter had he survived, so apparently you would disagree with that as well.

One of the passengers had no drugs in his system and had basicallyzero boating experience. I am pretty sure he was not aware of the risks

I guess the lawsuits are fruitless because it was the passengers fault for the accident

[Fred]

Jake,

I figure if someone is stupid enough to get into ANY type of vehicle when they know the driver is drunk then that's on them. I never said he shouldn't have been charged with a crime if he had lived. You can call it manslaughter, murder, or whatever - but think about it, those other two guys knew he was drunk. They played Russian Roulette and LOST. And no, I wouldn't let someone off the hook if they were driving drunk and caused the death of his passengers because his passengers knew he was drunk when they got in the vehicle. Geesh, chill out. Your assumptions are so off base.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

He quoted you, but his response seems more like it was aimed at bnorth. That being said, with your thoughts shortly following his I can see where it sounded like you were in agreement.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Fred

Jake,

I figure if someone is stupid enough to get into ANY type of vehicle when they know the driver is drunk then that's on them. I never said he shouldn't have been charged with a crime if he had lived. You can call it manslaughter, murder, or whatever - but think about it, those other two guys knew he was drunk. They played Russian Roulette and LOST. And no, I wouldn't let someone off the hook if they were driving drunk and caused the death of his passengers because his passengers knew he was drunk when they got in the vehicle. Geesh, chill out. Your assumptions are so off base.

i see you agree that the driver is responsible but 'that's on them' as also the responsibility on the passengers for being stupid and implying they are also responsible.

Depends on what you mean 'KNEW' he was drunk. If the guy tells you he had 2 beers but in a boat that means nothing compared to car. Did you kNOW? I know there can be counterarguments but the fact there can be arguments makes adding conditions silly.

Its starts to get complicated when we keep adding layers. Thats why the law is pretty simple. The driver/owner is responsible for the occupants. That way we arent worrried about who knew or should of known things. Nobody thought he would be driving 65 mph or whatever in a rock embankment like cmize said.

[Fred]

If you believe everything on the internet then....

According to the investigation the three were seen in a bar prior to the time they got in the boat. The assumption is that the three were probably together for a while during the evening. Yes, alcohol tends to screw up your judgement (like letting you pile drive your boat at over 65MPH into a jetty on a clear evening) but you have to figure in today's day and age you just need to be smarter when you decide to get into a vehicle with someone that is not in total control. I guess it could have looked worse if Jose was driving his vehicle (on the way to getting to his boat) and slammed it into a tree at 100MPH (killing all three) because society is less tolerant of drinking and then driving a 4 wheeled motor vehicle.

The time line is pretty interesting. Investigators seem to have it nailed down pretty good. The way I see things is that people "own" the consequences of their poor decisions.

I want my kids growing up knowing that consequences of their poor decisions is on them and nobody else.

[packs]

I don't think that's entirely true though. Getting on a boat with someone who was drinking isn't the same as signing your life away. I don't think it's right to blame a victim either. The two men aren't dead because they were drinking or doing drugs, they're dead because Jose Fernandez was drinking and doing drugs.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Fred

If you believe everything on the internet then....

According to the investigation the three were seen in a bar prior to the time they got in the boat. The assumption is that the three were probably together for a while during the evening. Yes, alcohol tends to screw up your judgement (like letting you pile drive your boat at over 65MPH into a jetty on a clear evening) but you have to figure in today's day and age you just need to be smarter when you decide to get into a vehicle with someone that is not in total control. I guess it could have looked worse if Jose was driving his vehicle (on the way to getting to his boat) and slammed it into a tree at 100MPH (killing all three) because society is less tolerant of drinking and then driving a 4 wheeled motor vehicle.

The time line is pretty interesting. Investigators seem to have it nailed down pretty good. The way I see things is that people "own" the consequences of their poor decisions.

I want my kids growing up knowing that consequences of their poor decisions is on them and nobody else.

It becomes a broader issue, people who drink go with designated drives. So if the people are drunk and dont realize their designated driver is too drunk to drive and an accident happens, its again the passengers to blame? I can see a failure in trust but thats not the same as being responsible for the accident.

The passengers didnt decide to drive, It was Jose. If Jose decided not to drive and nobody drove, then no accident happens.

I really think you just have to blame the driver on this who decided to man the wheel. It makes it a lot easier. If we go around blaming passengers for auto accidents for the fact of just getting into the car or boat thats a pretty slippery slope.

Afterall, we are trying to prevent impaired people from driving. Accidents end right there if people dont drive impaired. We dont need to get into the nitty gritty of what the passengers knew/how impaired were they/etc etc

[KMayUSA6060]

Reading some of the above comments, it's pretty easy to see how someone got millions from McDonald's after said someone spilled their own hot coffee onto their lap. The "victim" mentality in this country is unbelievable. Much like our welfare system, our court system has become a lazy way to make a quick buck and be set for life. Disgusting.

When the reports first came out that Jose had died, there was talks of mental instability. The rumor was he went out on the boat to clear his head, or at least that's how the media made it seem. If this story had been true, and IF his friends tagged along to keep him safe/calm/sane without any knowledge of his intoxication, then Jose could have been charged with murder/manslaughter/etc.

But that's not the case. The reports state that the 3 of them were together that night - all 3 had been drinking and 2/3 had cocaine in their system. Therefore they all made the choice to become intoxicated. Then they all made the choice, coherent or not, to get on the boat. With this being the truth...

Jose Fernandez is responsible for his own death. His one friend is responsible for their own death. His other friend is responsible for their own death. Simple as that.

What's really sickening is the families of the 2 people accompanying Jose are looking to sue Jose's fiancee - whom just had a baby last month might I add. I hope the judge dismisses any lawsuits against Jose Fernandez by these families. Of course, I don't have much faith in our judicial system to do that.

Accountability. Learn it. Live it. Love it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Reading some of the above comments, it's pretty easy to see how someone got millions from McDonald's after said someone spilled their own hot coffee onto their lap. The "victim" mentality in this country is unbelievable. Much like our welfare system, our court system has become a lazy way to make a quick buck and be set for life. Disgusting.

When the reports first came out that Jose had died, there was talks of mental instability. The rumor was he went out on the boat to clear his head, or at least that's how the media made it seem. If this story had been true, and IF his friends tagged along to keep him safe/calm/sane without any knowledge of his intoxication, then Jose could have been charged with murder/manslaughter/etc.

But that's not the case. The reports state that the 3 of them were together that night - all 3 had been drinking and 2/3 had cocaine in their system. Therefore they all made the choice to become intoxicated. Then they all made the choice, coherent or not, to get on the boat. With this being the truth...

Jose Fernandez is responsible for his own death. His one friend is responsible for their own death. His other friend is responsible for their own death. Simple as that.

What's really sickening is the families of the 2 people accompanying Jose are looking to sue Jose's fiancee - whom just had a baby last month might I add. I hope the judge dismisses any lawsuits against Jose Fernandez by these families. Of course, I don't have much faith in our judicial system to do that.

Accountability. Learn it. Live it. Love it.

Well its hard to take your opinion seriously when you start it off with ' it's pretty easy to see how someone got millions from McDonald's after said someone spilled their own hot coffee onto their lap"

What case are you referring too? If there is no specific case of that do you agree that some entity convinced you of that? You may want to see the movie 'hot coffee' that i have attached a link on youtube. Mcdonalds used that misinformation to convince people like you that this occurred but in reality she received far less than a million .

Id like to know the name of this person that actually received milions of dollars from mcdonalds due to fault on their own yet public opinion thinks that happened.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmLo_mpeltE


can also watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAzMMKIspPQ

In addition, you mention that that fiance of jose just had a baby. What does that have to do with anything? What about the passengers families?

People going to jail like to tell the judge that they have a family to take care of. The judge usualy says 'you should of thought of that before you committed the crime/driven drunk (you can fill that part in)

Even after the lawsuit. im sure the lawyers will work it out and leave enough money for the family. Many babys grow up without a million dollar trust fund. A lot of money has probably 'disappeared' right now as well. Is that fair to the victim's families?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Well its hard to take your opinion seriously when you start it off with ' it's pretty easy to see how someone got millions from McDonald's after said someone spilled their own hot coffee onto their lap"

What case are you referring too? If there is no specific case of that do you agree that some entity convinced you of that? You may want to see the movie 'hot coffee' that i have attached a link on youtube.

Id like to know the name of this person that actually received milions of dollars from mcdonalds due to fault on their own.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIeXjd_jzZk

In addition, you mention that that fiance of jose just had a baby. What does that have to do with anything? What about the passengers families?

People going to jail like to tel the judge that they have a family to take care of. The judge usualy says 'you should of thought of that before you committed the crime/driven drunk (you can fill that part in)

Even after the lawsuit. im sure the lawyers will work it out and leave enough money for the family. Many babys grow up without a million dollar trust fund. A lot of money has probably 'disappeared' right now as well. Is that fair to the victim's families?

I have emboldened parts of your post and will answer chronologically...

1) Not sure how the beginning of my post negates the seriousness of my post.

2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebec...;s_Restaurants. "Negligence" and "lawsuit" are synonymous. Negligence is everywhere. The alternate terminology is "human error".

3) She is a new mother, and just lost her fiance. The deaths were not fault of her own. In fact, she had NOTHING to do with it. Your defense of the other 2 families is they just lost a loved one, therefore they should be entitled to some compensation. She just lost her loved one, and her new baby lost a dad. Where's their compensation?

4) So what you're suggesting is, because she was engaged to a rich athlete, her financials should automatically become a trick-or-treat bag where everyone can come grab some? "Don't worry, there will be enough candy in the end for you to enjoy some of it."

[drcy]

The McDonald's case is a bit of a bad story. Not to say the person was without fault and stupidity, but McDonald's had been warned by authorities numerous times before the incident that their coffee was served way too hot, especially for the drive through and people carrying the food themselves. They had been told to serve the coffee cooler and that they could be liable if a customer accidentally got burned after accidentally spilling it on themselves.

And, as someone who would go to McDonald's in college (many years ago), I specifically recall thinking that their coffee was extra hot and served hotter than anywhere else.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Well people to get injured all the time with people with no money and no insurance and you are right , there are no claims against those people and it doesnt matter if they have kids or a family . However if someone has money and/or insurance, they will likely get sued in a case such as Jose's


Which reminds me, there is probably insurance on the boat that is being pursued but the public will not know about that for this type of case. I discussed that earlier in this thread months ago.

Still having a family doesnt relieve anyone from a damages award or being a fault for an accident. The baby has nothing to do in terms of what happened in the accident and the victims damages. Collecting on the damages is a different story. The baby will be used as a sword, not a shield

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by drcy

The McDonald's case is a bit of a bad story. Not to say the person was without fault and stupidity, but McDonald's had been warned by authorities numerous times before the incident that their coffee was served way too hot, especially for the drive through and people carrying the food themselves. They had been told to serve the coffee cooler and that they could be liable if a customer accidentally got burned after accidentally spilling it on themselves.

And, as someone who would go to McDonald's in college (many years ago), I specifically recall thinking that their coffee was extra hot and served hotter than anywhere else.

right mcdonalds made a decison, they got X amount of business with their coffee which far exceeded the liability. Plus even if they did 'lose' a case, they can just make the public think it was for millions and millions of dollars and get people to back their side so they win both ways

[packs]

I find the victim blaming hard to understand. If your child died because their driver was drunk I don't know how many people would say their child deserved it.

[Stampsfan]

Trying to lighten this up a bit...

Originally Posted by Fred

I guess it could have looked worse if Jose was driving his vehicle (on the way to getting to his boat)...

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

That way we arent worrried about who knew or should of known things.

Regardless of the topic, I think I will support the view of the person who uses proper grammar.

Hard to believe one of these guys is a lawyer, and likely works with documents all day.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

Trying to lighten this up a bit...





Regardless of the topic, I think I will support the view of the person who uses proper grammar.

Hard to believe one of these guys is a lawyer, and likely works with documents all day.

Attack the messenger and not the message. So someone for Nazis with great net54 grammar you will support. I will go on a limb and i will support the person that is against Nazi's with terrible net54 grammar.

Count me as an anti-nazi person no matter the grammar! Just lightening things up a bit...

[Fred]

What a waste of time...