New T205 Website with Master Checklist

[Ronnie73]

Hi everyone, Lately there seems to be an increase in T205 questions and posts. Some time ago, I had decided to start a new T205 website but had gotten busy on some other projects. So I decided to make the website live today. Since its new, there are many unfinished areas but wanted to get going with the Master Checklist and work on it from there. I welcome everyone to contribute to the growth of this website and share their knowledge of this popular set.

Thanks,
Ron Kornacki
http://www.t205resource.com

[KrenBats]

Ron, great site! I look forward to the site growing with more content. I have a card not on the Master Checklist, a Broad Leaf black EJ Phelps. Is this a new discovery?

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by KrenBats

Ron, great site! I look forward to the site growing with more content. I have a card not on the Master Checklist, a Broad Leaf black EJ Phelps. Is this a new discovery?

Its a new discovery as in its a card I haven't seen in the past year to add it to the list. Thanks for the addition, I will update the website tonight. Right now there are many cards that exist that are not checked off only because I haven't seen them yet.

[Vintagecatcher]

Nice job Ron!


Patrick

Originally Posted by KrenBats

Ron, great site! I look forward to the site growing with more content. I have a card not on the Master Checklist, a Broad Leaf black EJ Phelps. Is this a new discovery?

No it's not new. I owned the card before and believe I got it from another board member.



Ron what your saying is that you started a site that you want fellow T205 collectors to fill out for you because you didn't take the time for research in depth right? So all of us give you info we have collected for yrs and we all have a bad a$$ well informed site made. So how do I get my cut when you start getting headline, banner, and other advertising profits? My time, my knowledge, my research will not be used for someone else's gain when no effort was put forth to do their own. Hell a simple 4-5hrs on the Sgc registry and ebay would give you 90%+ of what you need. Call me sour or bitter or what ever you want but all I ask is that you do not publish any info I have given of finding I have made.

[19cbb]

Tough crowd...

[Vintagecatcher]

Ron,


Here is another one to add:

Patrick

[frankbmd]

I thought we were stewards.
History is immortal.
Sadly we are not.

[dog*dirt]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

No it's not new. I owned the card before and believe I got it from another board member.



Ron what your saying is that you started a site that you want fellow T205 collectors to fill out for you because you didn't take the time for research in depth right? So all of us give you info we have collected for yrs and we all have a bad a$$ well informed site made. So how do I get my cut when you start getting headline, banner, and other advertising profits? My time, my knowledge, my research will not be used for someone else's gain when no effort was put forth to do their own. Hell a simple 4-5hrs on the Sgc registry and ebay would give you 90%+ of what you need. Call me sour or bitter or what ever you want but all I ask is that you do not publish any info I have given of finding I have made.

I am not sure why you are so bitter about this website. Ron has stated this was because of increases in questions and posts on T205's. I hope the website becomes informative and successful for collectors.

There are many of us who could have started a similar website on T205's but Ron took the initiative to start this one. Why should we knock a guy for seeing a need and doing something to address that need? It may not be done how you want it done but that's life.

[KrenBats]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

No it's not new. I owned the card before and believe I got it from another board member.



Ron what your saying is that you started a site that you want fellow T205 collectors to fill out for you because you didn't take the time for research in depth right? So all of us give you info we have collected for yrs and we all have a bad a$$ well informed site made. So how do I get my cut when you start getting headline, banner, and other advertising profits? My time, my knowledge, my research will not be used for someone else's gain when no effort was put forth to do their own. Hell a simple 4-5hrs on the Sgc registry and ebay would give you 90%+ of what you need. Call me sour or bitter or what ever you want but all I ask is that you do not publish any info I have given of finding I have made.

Let me start of by saying that I have been collecting T205's for about 10 minutes and have a total of 4 in my collection. I definitely understand where Andrew is coming from. I have been collecting Kren bats for about 15 years and it is very difficult finding information on these bats. I have paid over $500 for catalogs, traveled to the Louisville Slugger Museum, and have spend countless hours conducting research. I would get annoyed when people would ask my opinion on bats knowing the time and money I invested in my research. (Conversly, I would get annoyed with people not willing to share their knowledge). However, by sharing the infomation that I've collected (often on this board), it has helped the overall collecting community and has hopefully saved some people shelling out big money for a Store model bat that is being called game used.

I also believe that when you give, you get more. I had provided someone information on Kren bats a couple of years ago and shared everything I had. A couple of weeks ago, he decided to sell his collection and he called me first. I would not have been able to add these bats to my collection if I was not willing to share the info I had.

For someone who is just starting out collecting T205's, it would be great to have resources similiar to the T206 sites to learn more about these cards. There were several posts about the market being down for T205's. What better way to get more people excited about collecting T205's and drive up the market?

Lastly, it is critical for the people that provide infomation get credit for their hard work. And as for advertising profits, is Leon giving us a cut from his advertising? Call me crazy, but I don't see Ron retiring anytime soon from this website. I do agree with Andrew that a little more research should have been done, but it's a start. Anyway, just a perspective from someone just staring out collecting these cards.

Mike Hud$0n

[Leon]

Originally Posted by KrenBats

Let me start of by saying that I have been collecting T205's for about 10 minutes and have a total of 4 in my collection. I definitely understand where Andrew is coming from. I have been collecting Kren bats for about 15 years and it is very difficult finding information on these bats. I have paid over $500 for catalogs, traveled to the Louisville Slugger Museum, and have spend countless hours conducting research. I would get annoyed when people would ask my opinion on bats knowing the time and money I invested in my research. (Conversly, I would get annoyed with people not willing to share their knowledge). However, by sharing the infomation that I've collected (often on this board), it has helped the overall collecting community and has hopefully saved some people shelling out big money for a Store model bat that is being called game used.

I also believe that when you give, you get more. I had provided someone information on Kren bats a couple of years ago and shared everything I had. A couple of weeks ago, he decided to sell his collection and he called me first. I would not have been able to add these bats to my collection if I was not willing to share the info I had.

For someone who is just starting out collecting T205's, it would be great to have resources similiar to the T206 sites to learn more about these cards. There were several posts about the market being down for T205's. What better way to get more people excited about collecting T205's and drive up the market?

Lastly, it is critical for the people that provide infomation get credit for their hard work. And as for advertising profits, is Leon giving us a cut from his advertising? Call me crazy, but I don't see Ron retiring anytime soon from this website. I do agree with Andrew that a little more research should have been done, but it's a start. Anyway, just a perspective from someone just staring out collecting these cards.

Mike Hud$0n

I suggest you participate in the frequent board contests or come to the National and go to the Net54baseball dinner at the National in order to understand what is given back vis a vis profits from our ads (not that I need to, but I have). The dinner has some sponsorship, usually, but I have always had to put in 4 figures or more to pay for it. Try having food and a 6 hour open bar for 200 or so people, at a nice hotel, and let me know the cost. Nah, I have never given anything back. Oh, please send your membership dues asap too. best regards

ps...Good luck with the site Ron!! Nice start.

[KrenBats]

Leon, by no means was I questioning all the great things that you do by investing in this site and the other events. It is a tremendous site and I'm sure there is a significant financial investment hosting the site, the dinners, etc. I never said that you didn't give anything back. I was just making a point that most of us share our knowledge and info on the site and don't expect money in return. The success of the site is clearly attributed to your efforts and reinvesting in the Net54 community!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by KrenBats

Leon, by no means was I questioning all the great things that you do by investing in this site and the other events. It is a tremendous site and I'm sure there is a significant financial investment hosting the site, the dinners, etc. I never said that you didn't give anything back. I was just making a point that most of us share our knowledge and info on the site and don't expect money in return. The success of the site is clearly attributed to your efforts and reinvesting in the Net54 community!

Thanks Mike. I know you understand most of what goes into running this site and the time it takes. Hopefully, as you said, the more we give the more we get. That has always been my philosophy. I consider myself very lucky to be able to moderate it, with the help of a few others. I enjoy sharing knowledge and helping other collectors. As I always say, when we are eventually on our deathbed, it won't be about what we have "gotten" but about what we have "given" and done. Take care and best of luck....and thanks for your participation and sharing of knowledge. Without our members, such as yourself, this site would be nothing (literally).

[Ease]

I think its a great start Ron. All you have to do now is fill in the blanks as far as the checklist is concerned, and that will come in time.

[Harford20]

A quick one I noticed missing. Not a pretty card, but the only one I have seen (although I know there are several more out there) and confirms the existence of the Frank Chance AB Green back for you.
Dave

[Wite3]

I totally understand where Andrew is coming from. Many years ago, I shared much of my t205 research with a fellow collector. Who then published it in a magazine article and took credit for all of it. My master checklist is currently nearly twice the size of of what is on Ron's shows. I could fill in a bunch of the holes. I am leaning towards doing this but I honestly do not know Ron well and am hesitant by being burned the last time. I might be persuaded still but at this time, I think I am just holding back because of my history.

Joshua

PS Edited to say that the webiste is very nice and I love the way the master chart is set up. Easy to see and read. Good job.

[egbeachley]

If T205resource.com was able to make some money for advertising, etc., and that's a big if considering it would get the same 20-30 people per month visiting, I bet it won't be enough to pay the webmaster minimum wage for the time spent creating and updating the site. Not even including the research part.

Looking at the master checklist and having been familiar with the set for nearly 40 years, I didn't realized how many "variations" were specific to a particular brand back. Loses the luster of being a "variation" that way.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

No it's not new. I owned the card before and believe I got it from another board member.



Ron what your saying is that you started a site that you want fellow T205 collectors to fill out for you because you didn't take the time for research in depth right? So all of us give you info we have collected for yrs and we all have a bad a$$ well informed site made. So how do I get my cut when you start getting headline, banner, and other advertising profits? My time, my knowledge, my research will not be used for someone else's gain when no effort was put forth to do their own. Hell a simple 4-5hrs on the Sgc registry and ebay would give you 90%+ of what you need. Call me sour or bitter or what ever you want but all I ask is that you do not publish any info I have given of finding I have made.

Andrew,

I totally understand your point here. But I also like the idea of the site growing and being built by the contributions of advanced T205 collectors like yourself. The site (and collectors looking to it for guidance) would benefit greatly with your input and contributions. It would be great to have articles written by you published on the site as well.

However, like I said, I understand your point about more research and development being put into it by the developer prior to going live with it.

Best,

AndyH


.

[buymycards]

My guess is that if you look at the site expenses and the amount of time invested by Leon, he would make more money per hour by working part time at McDonalds than he makes on this site. I HOPE Leon is making enough money from this site to keep it going and to make his time worthwhile.

In a way, I can see Andrews point. It's kind of like outing auctions. If more people have information and are aware of the auctions or the rare cards then the prices will go up and the cards will become more difficult to obtain.

For some reason, this thinking doesn't seem to apply to T206's. It seems that nearly everyone is willing to share the T206 "secrets". Not so with T213's, T216's, and T205's.

Nice job on the T205 site.

Rick

[kilo]

in this age of information, must everything comedown to "compensation"? i though we were all here to help each-other?

--mike.

[Ronnie73]

Thank you for all the comments, positive and negative. I knew that not everyone would be happy with the T205 website but I figured the positives out weighed the negatives. Mainly sharing the knowledge of the set was a possitive to me. Everyone is welcome to help fill the checklist but not everyone has to. As far as me taking my own time to fill the checklist, I have followed ebay auctions and other sales for the past year and thats how I started with 1103 different front/back combinations. The website design was ready about a year ago and I put off making it live till I had some of the checklist filled. The idea was a website that was fresh that everyone could take part in building. As far as me making any kind of profit with banners, I have no clue as to what type of money banners even pull in. I have no plans to add banners, thats why I added a links page where everyone is listed for free just by asking to be added. I do realize that there are a few long time collectors of T205's that have been working on their own top secret master lists, and thats fine if they stay top secret. I'm sure with time and help from many of the other T205 collectors, the website will grow at a comfortable rate and be a success.

[barrysloate]

This is an interesting discussion about the value of information. Over the years I've studied various areas of this hobby in great depth, developing an expertise along the way. Once I became an active member of this site, I made a decision that I would share that information with other collectors.

One of my areas of speciality is rare baseball books. In 1995 I wrote a comprehensive article about them in VCBC. Many people told me at that time that they had never seen that area of the hobby discussed in such depth. It became a valuable resource for collectors from that point on. I never got paid for my work, and never expected much or anything in return. Likewise, if a queston about books comes up on Net54, I'm happy to help somebody in any way I can.

I'm still digesting Andrew's refusal to help with the project. I do understand that he has worked hard to learn about the T205 set, and to compile a checklist of all the known front/back combinations. And I realize that anybody can start a website, and then expect those who know more than them to fill in the blanks. I'm leaning towards the idea that information should be shared, especially for those who are active members of this site.

Collectors come here on a daily basis asking for help from other hobby experts, and I would hate to see people refuse to share what they know with others. Normally we help people with specific needs. Scholars write and publish articles all the time and anyone who reads them may use that information to further their own research.

So what's the answer? I don't know for sure. Maybe the OP needs to do a little more digging on his own and establish some credibility before asking others to fill in the missing information. But I'm a little uncomfortable with Andrew's hard nosed position too. Like I said at the start, this is about the value of information, and maybe each us puts a different worth on what we know and how we acquired it.

[Mikehealer]

Nice website Ron, it's nice to see you helping other collectors with an accurate checklist. I hope it keeps getting updated by you and other hobbyists.
You should be commended on the effort. I think that a website such as this could only attract new collectors to the set which has to be considered a good thing for the hobby.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Barry I read your post with great interest. Maybe I am just an old guy (which I am) but I miss th days when it was a great joy to spread the word of something you knew through the hobby.

I remember sitting for hours listening to John England tell me about various T & E sets. In the mid-70s I was collecting several tennis sets and I wrote to Edgar Tigar-Wharton and he not only responded quickly but sent me checklists of everything he had on tennis which I shared with anyone that asked for years.

I read your baseball book article in VCBC and was thrilled that the subject was broached. I scan this site daily hoping to see some book news from Max or someone else. My post on the Putnam series a couple of years ago did elicit quite a few great responses.

I do remember encountering several "I know more than you do" characters in the hobby in the 1980s but then again that was the era that really brought out many people that I did not enjoy being around at shows. That is probably the main reason I left it for more than a decade.

I too have had many things I have researched and written be used in print without credit, especially on deadball era spring training. Big deal, the word is out and I am sure that 99 out of every 100 baseball books ever printed do not make the author any money.

The fellowship whether it be face to face or electronic is much more valuable to me.

[peterb69]

Ron, nice site so far.

[barrysloate]

Thanks Mike, and there is no question that the world is changing in every way imaginable. Maybe the days of sharing information freely have gone the way of the dinosaur. Hey, I'm just a cranky old white guy.

There is a great emphasis today on the value of baseball cards, and perhaps some collectors feel that sharing too much information will hurt them in the pocketbook. That's why we often see collectors refusing to add new cards to established checklists; they feel if they keep them uncatalogued they will be worth more money. When the cards weren't so valuable the information was happily shared.

[19cbb]

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

Maybe I am just an old guy (which I am) but I miss th days when it was a great joy to spread the word of something you knew through the hobby.

+1

The Times They Are a-Changin'

[Wite3]

Okay...after talking it over, I sent Ron an email...I will be going through his list and my master list and sending him data on cards he is missing from his list. I hope this helps collectors. Good luck all.

Joshua

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Okay...after talking it over, I sent Ron an email...I will be going through his list and my master list and sending him data on cards he is missing from his list. I hope this helps collectors. Good luck all.

Joshua

Thank you Joshua. I look forward to updating the website with your information. Also, thank you to the others that have posted their additions to the site. I plan to do the updating late tonight which seems to be the only time I have thats free.

As far as having more information on a card, makes it less valuable, I don't agree. Seems the more info on T206's only increases the value. Knowing whats needed to complete a subset, has only increased the number of collectors willing to give the monster a shot, wether it be a teamset, backs set, or any of the other many different ways to collect them. I feel the same can happen with the T205's.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Okay...after talking it over, I sent Ron an email...I will be going through his list and my master list and sending him data on cards he is missing from his list. I hope this helps collectors. Good luck all.

Joshua

As a collector, thank you. I am one of those that believes sharing information is good for the hobby .....and I enjoy helping others.
And I guess it's worth saying again, thanks to all members here who contribute. It is appreciated. I have actually had lurkers tell me they are upset about something concerning our forum. I generally thank them and tell them when they contribute I will be happy to entertain their critique. Until then I wish them all the best.

[npa589]

I can't wait to look through this. I've been looking for exactly what you have provided here...

Thank you Ron!

[z28jd]

I don't think anyone gets rich off a website such as his like some people think. The site I write for had over six million page views last year and we surpassed that in late August this year. We have independent advertisers and google ads as well. I wrote a story this morning that took just over an hour to write/edit/publish/market(facebook/twitter) and I will make approx $4 on it, unless someone big picks it up and references it, then I might get about $10. Part of that is because it is baseball off-season but the show must go on.

I have posted news items or live game recaps that have paid well per time spent, but I have also written stories on Pirates history that have made about $.50 per hour spent writing it. I personally like the history articles better because it is something I enjoy more and I don't consider it wasted time.

I would've paid the site I write for(don't tell the owner) to let me publish this bio on Dots Miller because of the family relation to him. Every regular reader on this board could read this and I might get $2 from it in my next check so click away just to see the work put into it for reference purposes. I spent about three hours on it and that was coming into the story already well-armed with info on Dots. http://blogs.piratesprospects.com/hi...r-dots-miller/

[npa589]

I can add one: John Kling SOVEREIGN --- I currently own two. One is getting graded, the other is raw, as it should be, in my collection.

I also can add:

1. Pfeister Sovereign
2. Richie American Beauty Black

--- both of which are currently in my possession, scans are below!

[npa589]

Scans for the Richie/Pfeister

Originally Posted by Wite3

Okay...after talking it over, I sent Ron an email...I will be going through his list and my master list and sending him data on cards he is missing from his list. I hope this helps collectors. Good luck all.

Joshua

Josh thank you got the contributions. I have probably not nearly the list you do so even at this point my work is futile in comparison to yours. You stated earlier about giving info with no credit. That's my worry. The work we all out into this is no way distinguished from the person publishing it. All info I have gotten from fellow collectors is identified by color coding as to give credit to them if or when it ever went public. As someone said earlier Ron should have taken a bit more time compiling info of his own. SGC's registry would almost completely fill the list minus back colors and factory designations. Those are easily found via auction houses and ebay. The info is a lot of researching and time but its fulfilling to see the list come together just like building a master set of cards minus the money cost.

As this board should know I am not against sharing info and findings. So to say that is incorrect. As far as costing a ton to run a site I can only say it cost me less than $10 a month to have my business site up when I did. How much for an advertising banner? Probably far more than $20+ a month(guessing). Isn't this the issue that came up about the T206 resource web site. Info taken and used as someone else's? There's a thread a mile long about it. It was a crappy deal for all parties involved.

So in closing I was planning on emailing Ron tonight and discussing the issues I have but have been in a stand all day. I am still in it btw. Ron I wish you the best from one 205 guy to the next and the work Josh has done will probably fill all your needs. I will take a look after it is uploaded and see if I have anything to add(doubtful) and email you them. I am trusting what you and Josh discussed would be the same questions I would have asked anyways. If he's ok sharing then I will if I have anything to add. Happy collecting everyone.

[RCMcKenzie]

t205cubsf.jpg

t205cubsb2.jpg

Thank y'all for putting the t205 website together. looking forward to reading it. Here are two of only a handful that I own.

Also, great article on Dots Miller about how he got his name.


edit--Richie is Hassan Fact 30, Graham Cubs is Hassan Fact 649

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Attachment 78373

Attachment 78374

Thank y'all for putting the t205 website together. looking forward to reading it. Here are two of only a handful that I own.

Also, great article on Dots Miller about how he got his name.

The nickname story sounds like it was something that was made up because no one could figure out the real reason, but that is what was passed down through the years to the relatives I have in common with Dots, so I'm sticking to it. For the most part though, he was referenced more as Jack Miller in the newspaper, not Dots, and definitely not John(his given name).

Funny that I just noticed this even though I have had the card for years. His t205 has John D Miller written on it twice...his middle name was Barney. It is correct on the t207 and his Cracker Jack card

[Hot Springs Bathers]

In my earlier post I mentioned my old friend Edward Tigar-Wharton but addressed him Edgar, a co-worker's first name. My apologies to the late E T-W!

[tonyo]

all of mine were on the JLE list...

[Wite3]

List is on its way to Ron...hopefully the site will be updated will all the data soon.

Andrew...I am sure there are some Sovereign I might have missed and some rarer backs too that might be on your list.

Plus, I still have some weird missing cards here and there. I know they SHOULD exist, just have not seen a scan of them.

Joshua

[Republicaninmass]

we all have access to the same auction houses and ebay, if cards slip through the cracks, best of luck to those who find them. For the random pick up at a card show, happy hunting, because all the info is out there! I'm happy to share what knowledge I have, and I realized a long time ago, my footwork and time aint work a dime!

[Matt]

Ron & Josh - thanks for facilitating the knowledge sharing on this under appreciated issue. I think one of the reasons the T206 issue has the following it does is because of works like Scott Reader's and Bill's Master Set data. With this data being made publicly available on T205s, it may foster a surge in T205 collector interest.

[Matt E.]

Matt,

As Ed McMahon would say

"High-OOOOOOOO," "You are correct, sir,"

I am all for sharing and more interest in T205's.
Take care,


Matt

[HercDriver]

Joshua --

I've got a list of 123 confirmed Sovereigns if you (or anybody else) wants it. You can find it here:

https://sites.google.com/site/genosb...rds/home?pli=1

Take Care,
Geno

[Ronnie73]

Updates have been made. Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. Scans that were shared will be used in the Gallery section. I will soon make a list of card scans that will be needed for the Gallery. I feel we are off to a decent start. It started off a little rocky but overall I feel we are all on the same side of things. Again, thank you everyone, and I look forward to doing future updates and additions.

[RCMcKenzie]

Ron,

Just my 2 cents. Do not set up the known cards with people's initials. Just check them off so that all collectors can see what has been found. I had a Richie Hassan 30, which is obviously not a rare back variation, which you did not initially include in your list. I don't even follow the set. People that read this board know Josh has been compiling data on this set for many years. To place your "finds" at 1000 and his at "300" is not going to get more people to post what they know. Cheers

[Matt]

Ron - one additional suggestion - maybe add a total row at the bottom so we can see how many cards are in each back-subset?
Keep up the good work!

[doug.goodman]

...So all of us give you info we have collected for yrs and we all have a bad a$$ well informed site made. So how do I get my cut when you start getting headline, banner, and other advertising profits? My time, my knowledge, my research will not be used for someone else's gain...

Wow, I'm glad that the various contributors to the Encyclopædia Britannica weren't of a similar mindset.

And, while Mr. Webster certainly deserves most of the credit for his dictionary, I'm glad for the help he surely got which may, or may not, have been credited somewhere in a section that I doubt anybody ever reads.

Doug

[Wite3]

Just for the record...I asked not to have my initials put on the board but Ron said other people wanted it. I prefer not to have them there.

Joshua

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Ron,

Just my 2 cents. Do not set up the known cards with people's initials. Just check them off so that all collectors can see what has been found. I had a Richie Hassan 30, which is obviously not a rare back variation, which you did not initially include in your list. I don't even follow the set. People that read this board know Josh has been compiling data on this set for many years. To place your "finds" at 1000 and his at "300" is not going to get more people to post what they know. Cheers

The original plan was just to use checkmarks but a few collectors asked for credit by card so I decided on using the initials. It seemed to work fine for the T206 master list. I did keep a copy of your Richie Hassan 30 which will be used in the Gallery section. Thank you. The number totals were just put there to keep track of how many have been confirmed so far. This will be changed to card back totals as the previous post suggests.