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  #1  
Old 04-27-2007, 06:11 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Famous quote by Craig Nettles to Sparky Lyle when the Yankees let Lyle go.

So, I say to you all......Sayonara......

I am SIGNING-OFF from this Forum.....for now. I've gained a lot of knowledge and I would like to think I
have contributed some of my Vintage BB card expertise to this forum. If nothing else, I am sure I have
posted some thought-provoking Threads.

More importantly, are the friendships I've gained these past 2 years on here.....friends like Brian Weisner
Barry Arnold....Frank Wakefield....Scott Ingold....Scot Reader....Jim Rivera....Anthony Nex....Leon Luckey
Hal Lewis....Scott Moseley....Kevin Cummings....Peter Thomas....Mike Peich....Tim Newcomb....Trae R....
Lyle Jobes....Jeff Lichtman......last, but not least....Dan McKee....Barry Sloate....Rich Klein (the 4 of us
have been friends since the early 1980's).

Many more.....so, please forgive me if I didn't mention some of your names.

Lastly, I did not sign on to Net54 to be the subject of personal attacks by the "usual suspects"....who
think this BB card hobby just revolves around PSA, SGC, pop reports, etc....and, regard substantive BB
card discussions (to quote one of these suspects)....as "incessant T206 meander".

I will continue to be a "reader" and an occasional poster on B/S/T.

Have a great Spring and Summer....Best Wishes to all....95% of you are really great people.

T-Rex TED

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  #2  
Old 04-27-2007, 06:47 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Rhys

Ted

Before you go I wanted to ask you a question, did you used to go to those Augusta Supershows in Maine back in the late 1980's or early 1990's? As a kid I used to go to those with my brother Rhett all the time. Usually an older collector friend from our church named Alan Strout who also lived in the Bangor area would take us and for some reason your name sounded familiar even before this forum and it just hit me that as a kid I might have met you down there once upon a time.

Feel free to send me a personal e mail if you dont want to post anymore, but I wish you the best if you dont post here anymore.

Rhys Yeakley

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  #3  
Old 04-27-2007, 07:14 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Frank Evanov

Good luck.

Frank

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  #4  
Old 04-27-2007, 07:19 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Wesley

Take care.

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  #5  
Old 04-27-2007, 07:20 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I'm not sure what prompted this, but sorry to see you go Ted. Hope you will still chime in with your T206 posts and your progress on the Monster.

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  #6  
Old 04-27-2007, 07:56 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: peter chao

Ted,

Of course we can't stop you from going...but there are two sides (at least) to this conflict. See E Daniel's post, "Is it possible..." somewhere on the front page or second page.

Drop by in the future.

Peter

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  #7  
Old 04-27-2007, 07:59 PM
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Posted By: Andy

Wow. Ted,
I'm truly sorry to hear that you've made this decision. I'm glad you will still read the boards though. I have enjoyed your contributions immensely and will miss your input.

Keep this in mind. There are many more lurkers than there are posters on this board. I would venture to say that quite a few of the lurkers learned a lot from your posts and many of them will be sorry to see you go. I know I will.

Please do keep us informed on your progress with our wonderful hobby and maybe post a little in the recent pick ups as well.

Take it easy and keep smiling.


Thanks,

Andy

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Old 04-27-2007, 08:07 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Learned a lot from reading your card postings and if you stick to this decision, Ted, you will be missed. Best to you, whatever path you choose.

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  #9  
Old 04-27-2007, 08:11 PM
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Posted By: leon

I'll miss your posts Ted. I agreed with 98% of what you said....which is more than I do with most. Come back when, and if, you want to. The T206 discussions won't be the same without you. Hope you make it to the National too and I look forward to meeting you someday....best regards

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  #10  
Old 04-27-2007, 08:40 PM
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Posted By: Bobby Binder

Ted,

Sad to see a really good person go and be chased off. I feel your pain and have tempted to do it myself. But have not because it would make to many of them happy to see me leave.

Hope our paths cross some where down the line and enjoyed reading everything you ever had to say about the hobby.

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  #11  
Old 04-28-2007, 02:27 AM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Dylan

I think most everyone here who posts a lot gets to that point where we wanna say "no more." Its probably good to just take a break for a few days and see how you feel then. Take care, and of course happy collecting.

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  #12  
Old 04-28-2007, 04:48 AM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Dave F

What in the world started this now? Anybody? Anybody?

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  #13  
Old 04-28-2007, 04:54 AM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Dave S

Hey Ted, for what it's worth...being relatively new with posting on here, I usually sit back and avoid the controversial non-baseball related bickering that goes on here. But going to chime in and say that in a short time on here, it's damn easy to see who the card-knowledgable people are and who the nit-pickers are. I think most know which side of that fence you stand on. Think more people should follow the baseball related aspect of the site and save their personal vendetta's for the chatrooms. Best of luck and will hate to see your knowledge of this hobby no longer posted here...

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  #14  
Old 04-28-2007, 05:51 AM
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Posted By: Lyle

but I look forward to seeing you at the Ft. Washington / Reading / Philly show . You're a real gentleman and scholar of the hobby !

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  #15  
Old 04-28-2007, 07:05 AM
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Posted By: Joann

Ted,

It seems you are firm in this decision, but I will join those who say you should not stop posting. I think your survey threads on T206's have led to the best raw research and knowledge accumulation that I have seen here - by far. I'm not that deeply into this set, but I still recognize extremely valuable contributions to its collectors when I see it. And your individual expertise is boundless and helpful as well.

As to the comment about "incessant T206 meanders", I noticed that one too and had to smile. But I also know that E, Daniel is passionate in his posts and don't think for one minute that he would suggest, in thoughtful seriousness, that posting about serious (as you put it, substantive) issues and questions is somehow inappropriate for this board. It is exactly the point of this board. I don't mean to speak for Daniel (Hi Daniel), but I think he would agree with that despite having made the comment. Heat of the moment type thing - I recently did it myself.

So read, but ring in too if you can see your way clear.

Joann

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Old 04-28-2007, 07:08 AM
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Posted By: ScottIngold

What the F*#% brought this on ?

Sorry for the language but this is just wrong. How or why would someone get pushed to the point of having to leave when they have so much to offer here ?

Of all the knowledge i've picked up here. By far Ted has provided the most . And i would imagine that goes for more than just me. Geez someone who will help and provide info to anyone who asks......Yeah lets run him off !!!!

Just boggles the mind.

I know enough from me. Just pissed about how this seems to happen to the oldtimers here from time to time.

Please keep in touch Ted and i will see you at the next show....With Danielle of course.

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Old 04-28-2007, 07:26 AM
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Posted By: howard

It seems pretty obvious to me that this arises from yesterdays "is it possible" thread started by Daniel. If so, I think both Ted and Daniel ought not to take these things so seriously. Take a week off Ted and see how you feel then. There are obviously many people here who value your opinions.

Howard

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  #18  
Old 04-28-2007, 07:33 AM
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Posted By: leon

Hopefully Ted will come back after a break. He and Daniel are very passionate and I would bet $100 if they got together it would be a polite, but maybe spirited, conversation. Both are good guys in my book. More often than not folks that leave, like myself for several days, come back just as good as ever. That's the great thing about true collectors....We always come back.....Armpits UNITE !!

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Old 04-28-2007, 07:54 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

One of the things that fascinates me about the board, and has since I first began reading it, is the number of personal attacks that occur. I wish I had an explanation for why this is so, but it escapes me. Consider the number of people who have gotten into bitter attacks with each other, the number of people who have left the board for extended periods of time, and it is truly alarming.

I've always said that if a psychology major were looking for a topic to write a dissertation on, this board would offer a motherlode of information. Most of us have left for some period of time, myself included. If this were a forum dealing in controversial issues, such as the war or politics (and we go there often) I would expect tempers to flare a bit. But that it happens in the arena of discussing baseball cards will always remain a mystery to me.

I too hope Ted comes back, but it will only happen when and if he is ready.

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Old 04-28-2007, 08:07 AM
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Posted By: Chad

My pet theory about the internet is that it's a kind of Rorschach test. I find it fascinating as well.

--Chad

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  #21  
Old 04-28-2007, 08:22 AM
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Posted By: RIch Klein

You know how to reach me:

Barry -- you know -- it is sooo different in communications with occassional face to face meetings compared to just the internet.

You can say things which you don't think anyone can hold you responsible for on the internet -- while in person; you realize the consequences of your actions.

Shoot; I bet Mr. Crandall and Mr. Behrens would have quite a nice conversation if they actually met -- both are passionate collectors -- albeit in different ways

Rich

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  #22  
Old 04-28-2007, 08:36 AM
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Posted By: T206Collector

If you care enough about Vintage Baseball cards to be a regular contributor to this Board, then you probably can get pretty easily insulted when someone suggests that you're an idiot for spending thousands of dollars on getting your cards graded when you could use that money to buy raw cards.

It is the lack of respect for people's collecting choices that drive people mad, and make people respond in ways that, I am sure, are insulting to the instigator.

If you collect raw, so be it, if you collect graded, so be it, and if you collect super high minty graded, so be it. But if you insult someone for their fundamental collecting beliefs, then you are likely going to get it thrown back at you.

I have run into big time troubles with both Ted Z (who prefers raw) and Jim C (who prefers PSA 8), because I felt it necessary to stick up for myself when I was being called an idiot by both. And, both failed to acknowledge that their initial positions were insulting to me and others, choosing instead to focus on the responses that their initial insensitive posts caused.

For whatever its worth, it is a shame that Ted Z could not recognize the context of this dialog, and will be pulling his substantial knowledge of T206 cards with him. He might not have had the only ball to play with on the block, but it will be difficult to find another one like it, now that he's taken his ball and gone home.

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Old 04-28-2007, 08:37 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Rich- I met Jim Crandall in person and he was a lot nicer and more soft spoken than he came across on the board.

One of the topics that I actually find amusing is the debate between raw and slabbed, and the bickering that ensues. What's particularly funny to me is many of the people who hate slabbed cards will take their raws cards and store them in screw down holders. When you think about it, is there really much of a difference between a plastic slab and a lucite holder? The former has a label placed on it by a third party, and that singular opinion seems to be a constant source of dismay among various collectors. It seems like so much fighting is over so small a distinction. But that's why I say I find the board fascinating.

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Old 04-28-2007, 09:03 AM
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Posted By: Alan

Ted is one of, if not the greatest people that I have ever met in this hobby. He really has a huge passion for this hobby & will take the time & effort to share with others. I hope he goes to the National so others can see that passion !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-t8tUED9MI

Take good care,
Alan

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Old 04-28-2007, 09:06 AM
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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

If you are going to dish out strong opinions, you should have thick enough skin to expect strong opinions back and if someone crosses the line, well just freaking IGNORE them and they will go away, or make light of it.

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Old 04-28-2007, 10:07 AM
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Posted By: JK

I also agree with Paul (and Peter). What I really love is the knack for getting one last lick in:

"Lastly, I did not sign on to Net54 to be the subject of personal attacks by the "usual suspects"....who think this BB card hobby just revolves around PSA, SGC, pop reports, etc...."

Again, we are all nimrods who cant get by without psa/sgc/etc.

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Old 04-28-2007, 10:26 AM
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Posted By: peter chao

I agree with Rich Klein's request for civility. It is extremely important. Otherwise we're going to end up having only attorneys posting on this board...and that would be a sad state of affairs.

As a consequence of their profession where name-calling is routine, most attorneys I know have extremely thick skins. All criticism sort of just bounces right off them...most sensitive attorneys I know have decided long ago they want to go into another field.

Let's be kind and civil with each other...if this becomes a board with only thick-skinned people, I'm going to stop posting because it will be just like work.

Peter

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Old 04-28-2007, 10:37 AM
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Posted By: Cat

Josh wrote: "I also agree with Paul (and Peter)."

What about Mary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa3h3pnhg8s

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Old 04-28-2007, 10:38 AM
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Posted By: ErlandStevens

It's a shame to lose people. As one who is almost exclusively a lurker, I enjoy the varied opinions on the board. The debating (when at least somewhat civil) is very informative for someone like me who is less in the know than most regular posters. People who are willing to take a stance and defend it are a real asset to the board. The hobby is made up of people will all different interests and motivations, and it's good for all of them to be represented here. However, because this is a hobby, people are going to collect in the manner that they most enjoy. If one takes an intolerant view of another's collecting style, he had better be ready to take some heat.

While we're on the topic of people who aren't posting (awkward transition), where is Frank Ward? I thought he was the master of civility and always kept the discussion on cards.

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Old 04-28-2007, 11:28 AM
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Posted By: PC

I predict that Ted will be back, if only because there is nowhere else on the net (and in everyday life) to talk about the thing he most likes to talk about, which is Ted.

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Old 04-28-2007, 11:29 AM
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Posted By: howard

It's "Graig" Nettles, not "Craig"

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Old 04-28-2007, 11:30 AM
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Posted By: leon

We could be left with all lawyers and one convict leading them (ouch....)....Sometimes I have to make fun of myself for my shameful youth...

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Old 04-28-2007, 11:47 AM
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Posted By: barry arnold

I hate to see your departure from the board, TRex.
Your research threads have been the very best for me and have
been the greatest of rides.
You spent significant amounts of time doing the workhorse labors of
statistical analyses as well as checklist sharing.
You also stood back from the data and theorized in ways that broke
new ground, again and again.
Your Primacy of Piedmont theory,followed by the trajectories of other
brands, continues to excite the community of T206 scholars. Exploring
unabgesichert is what continues to excite us. Uncharted territories
keep the scholarly detective in us alive. Your expert flashlight and
loupe in hand, with Scot's tome et others under your arm, revivified the
world of T206s for many of us--and I am most grateful.

Do keep in touch.

all the best,

Barry

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Old 04-28-2007, 12:17 PM
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Posted By: E, Daniel

Irony.

I learn things every day, about myself and others, both positive and not-so in equal portions.
Just a few days back I was quoted for partaking in a 'bash' of someone's kids on this board, ironically in a thread in which the entirity of my posts was making the exact argument against in relation to the Imus drama. I looked at each of those girls as someone's kids, and the hateful things he said simply unforgivable. I questioned whether someone could live with those comments about their own children, and then faceatiously suggested that individual's children would be extremely proud of such a stance if they were the subjects of the diatribe.
It's a strange line such principled stands as protecting free speech over the hurt and effects it can cause to others, and I understand both sides. I know you can both stand by your father as he is ridiculed and demeaned, merely praying to his god, and being above the base evil occuring around him, and admire, love and respect such inner strength and goodness. I also know, from family experience, that even knowing such action to be righteous and wanting to honor such choice, one can just as easily be robbed of your own sense of safety and strength, feeling scared throughout your life for your own physical and emotional well being, robbed of that inner confidence and peace.
I respect standing on principle, alot, but have my own personal mission statement that says over all else, thou shalt not damage my child. And I'll do anything, quite literally, to make that so.
So I apologized to James, because even though I made no effort to disparage his children and barely referenced them - I understand how sacred even the possibility of doing so must be uppermost.

And then yesterday.
I would take back only one thing from what I posted, and that was reference to 'T206 meander'. It was quite obviously a slight in referencing Ted's collecting focus, and was meant as such. Because I was sick, sick to death, head spinning off my shoulders frustrated at such continous, insidious, vituperative commentary on the issue of grading. By the same man (and men - 'the usual supects' ), again and again and again.

Peter S. is right. And so is everyone else. These are cards, and we need thick skin in general when discussing such frivolty on a chat board that doesn't allow for handshakes, facial nuances, twinkling of an eye to suggest a good natured ribbing over real insult. And similarly should we not need such thick skin that enduring constant insult is completely to be expected, especially if subjectively authorized because a particular member is a long tenured one and whose company and ideas are enjoyed by a great many.
Good natured debate and teasing is one thing.
Truly poor behaviour is another.

So irony is that I potentially offended one man - in desperation to protect all children - by mentioning his own uninvited......
And responded yesterday aggressively and perhaps insensitively to what I view as ongoing needling and insensitivity where none is needed. Can a choice to grade cards be THAT important that you would knowingly enter debate after heated debate, decrying an activity that makes many knowledgable serious hobbyists happy?

I don't know.

But again its time to apologize. For referencing negatively a collecting choice was exactly what I was railing against, and there I went and did it.
I won't again.

Every other thing I said, I stand by.
And I'm going to try and do what John S. says, and just contribute what little knowledge I have to the board and enjoy the friendships I can muster. As Leon mentions as his greatest reason for being here, I don't think I'd addictively be checking in so often if I didn't enjoy reading your voices and chuckling at wonkaticket's visual collages, even when I'm the victim .


Daniel

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Old 04-28-2007, 12:24 PM
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Posted By: James Feagin

If someone is to leave the board, just do it quietly. Otherwise, it looks like a big "I'm leaving, look at me, notice me, please tell me don't go and we can't live with out you". No one is bigger than the community or the hobby. This board will go one without most of us without a hitch.

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Old 04-28-2007, 12:46 PM
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Posted By: Dylan

Barry, first off almost all my pre world war I cards are in screwdown holders or graded by sgc/psa. :)And to address what you said, I dont think that it has anything to do with the display aspect of the slabs but everything to do with paying money to have a 3rd party assign a grade. This is what gets raw card enthusiasts worked up. If you were to pay a company a buck or two to just encapsulate a card, no grade, not even an assesment of authenticity, purely to protect the card from damage, I dont think any of the raw card collectors could complain about that. Most collectors like to maximize the value of their collection regardless of why they collect. Sometimes it may be in your better interest to send in your collection of cards in for grading. For others it may be better to take that money and buy more cards with it. It all depends on what your collection consists of. You can't blame anyone for trying to maximize the value of their collection, which is what most of us are trying to do when making that decison. So live and let live, everyone is playing their own hand the best they can.

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Old 04-28-2007, 12:55 PM
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Posted By: joe

Ted, enjoyed most of your postings. But I can't understand why when someone decides to leave the board, they have to announce it. Just don't post for awhile and maybe you will change your mind. I think some others have taken this path also, don't know if they are back. I probably wouldn't know if they are gone or posting again. I guess I don't worry about what other posters or lurkers think when I post something on the board.

Take care

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Old 04-28-2007, 01:04 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: peter chao

I'm sure that T-Rex didn't leave just because of what you said. I'm sure it was a culmination of slights real and imagined which led to his departure. From this thread I'm sure he realizes that we want him back when he's ready to come back.

Peter

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Old 04-28-2007, 01:06 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Cobby33

Maybe this simply boils down to different people's social skills (or lack thereof).

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Old 04-28-2007, 01:07 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Dave Stambaugh

...don't you think it's just kind of like a "closure" thing, a way of letting the world know you're pissed about something or someone...and you're going to do something you maybe don't really want to do??

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Old 04-28-2007, 01:20 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: James Feagin

Dave,

Best to let someone know you're pissed through an e-mail rather than start an entirely new thread about it.

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Old 04-28-2007, 01:29 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Larry

How many people have left this group recently? Seems like it's the ones with the biggest collections.

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Old 04-28-2007, 01:52 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I don't mind people letting others know that they are leaving and why they are leaving. Someone brought it up earlier and I've been wondering too why Frank Ward stopped posting here. He was arguably the most knowledgeable collector on this board when he was here and he was always willing to share his knowledge....I have no idea why he left. Now we are losing Ted who was also very knowledgeable. We know why he's leaving so there won't be any wondering. This board suffers when it loses that much knowledge.

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Old 04-28-2007, 01:58 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Dave F

I agree it is a shame Ted has made this decision...and his expertise will be missed...but, it is kind of like the girlfriend..if she says she is leaving..do you beg her to stay or say "adios"?

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Old 04-28-2007, 03:52 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Joann

I prefer that regular posters say something if they are going to stop posting, even at the risk of looking melodramatic. If someone simply stops posting I always wonder and worry that something has happened to them - how would we ever know? Gil Maines stopped posting and I worried about that I saw that he was still posting on the non-sports vintage board - at least I know he's okay.

And I was wondering about Frank too and was going to ask if he is okay. In addition to no posts, his site hasn't been updated in awhile either.

Joann

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Old 04-28-2007, 04:00 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: barrysloate

People come and go, that is the natural flow of the board.

And Ted was clearly upset the other day so I can't say I'm shocked that he left. I predict he will be back, hopefully in the not too distant future.

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Old 04-28-2007, 04:04 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Dave F

I think one of the main factors is...where else can you go to talk about prewar vintage baseball cards? Your spouse? Your coworkers? Is it worth bringing up to the cashier at the grocery store how excited you are because you just came across a cheap E94 Cobb?

Point is...this is the main place I would venture to say most all of us unload our thoughts, and proudly display pickups, etc...getting mad and leaving or not posting will only hurt yourself in the long run.

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Old 04-28-2007, 04:13 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Dave Hornish

Sorry to see you go Ted. With you and a few of the other T206 diehards posting on here, I have learned more about this set in three months than I had learned in 3 decades. I certainly hope you will return shortly. I was hoping to see the end result of all your "no print lists" but that will sadly have to wait.

I am often amazed at how worked up people get over what is supposed to be a fun hobby and I suspect if people typed only what they would say to someone in person, Ted and some others would still be posting here. I therefore echo Rich Klein's sentiments that civility is in order. We collect little pieces of cardboard after all-what point is there insulting people over that fact? Ted-I'm going to crack a slab in your honor tonight! Hurry back.

Dave

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Old 04-30-2007, 05:20 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Steve

best of luck Ted, you were a great read.



Steve














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Old 05-07-2007, 12:39 PM
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Default "From CYoung to....Sayonara"....Craig Nettles (ca 1979)

Posted By: Frank Evanov

That was fast!

Frank

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