NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used > Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-24-2017, 02:51 PM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default Babe Ruth opinions?

I am looking to add a babe ruth autograph to my collection at some point. I am nervous because of secretarial signatures being mistaken as the real deal. Do any of you know how to spot the difference between an authentic and secretarial or forged?

Ill post a couple photos and maybe you can give your opinions on if they might be real or fake.

each photo is a different item. One has a coa from EAC Gallery and one has a LOA from Frank Garo. I dont wanna say which ones have the "authentication" because in a way thats irrelevant.

So, thoughts on the photos? Advice on how to tell whats real and whats not?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg s-l1600.jpg (69.6 KB, 310 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600a.jpg (75.0 KB, 315 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600b.jpg (70.3 KB, 312 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600c.jpg (70.9 KB, 317 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600h.jpg (68.0 KB, 310 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-24-2017, 03:22 PM
David Atkatz's Avatar
David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,790
Default

The two cuts are forgeries. Bad forgeries. The last two baseballs are good. The first ball is so worn that it's really impossible to tell. (But I have never seen a forgery so worn.)
And, finally, Ruth's "secretarials" are well known, and never mistaken for genuine by the experienced. It's the forgeries you should worry about.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-24-2017, 03:46 PM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default

David, can you maybe explain why they are bad forgeries? What should I look for to help tell the difference between whats real and whats not?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-24-2017, 03:57 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,281
Default

The first cut looks like it took an hour to write. It's written so deliberately and slowly. That would tip me off right away.

No comment on the second one.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-24-2017, 04:33 PM
RichardSimon's Avatar
RichardSimon RichardSimon is offline
Richard Simon
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New York City
Posts: 5,355
Default

Very amateurish forgeries on the cuts.
Mr Garo and I usually have differing opinions.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history.
-
Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first.
www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports
--
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-24-2017, 04:40 PM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default

Does Garo have a bad rep?

Nevermind in this-I found a good thread here all about him.

Last edited by Jaymz023; 10-24-2017 at 04:54 PM. Reason: added info
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-24-2017, 04:48 PM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default

Ok, so on the baseballs in the photos, one of them has the LOA from Garo.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-25-2017, 08:05 AM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,101
Default

First baseball is 100% not good.

Both cuts are horrible.

I have serious doubts about the green? signed Ruth.

Would need to see the last one a little closer.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-25-2017, 08:07 AM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,101
Default

Although it's entirely possible that the green ball WAS authentic and was subsequently traced over at some point later on... It's just a very, very, very atypical color (blue-green) for a Ruth signed ball. In addition it is also very bold for a 90 year old ball. I can see that Gehrig has signed a side panel. Would love to see a pic of that signature as well.

Last edited by Bpm0014; 10-25-2017 at 08:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:55 AM
David Atkatz's Avatar
David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,790
Default

IMHO the green Ruth is fine. (And part of the reason it is bold is that the ball has been coated.)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:24 AM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,101
Default

IMHO, if real, the green Ruth is NOT a "playing days signature". In all likelihood it is from 1935-1945. More toward the latter years. A small window for Gehrig to sign as well. But not impossible....
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:03 AM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default

here is a photo of the Lou
Attached Images
File Type: jpg lou.jpg (72.3 KB, 199 views)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-25-2017, 12:39 PM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,101
Default

I do not know anything about Gehrig's signature, just Ruth. One would assume that if the Gehrig is good then the Ruth is. It could be just the shellack (or maybe traced) is the making the ink bleed.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:03 PM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default

if its traced, does that ruin it as far as value and authenticity?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:07 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,281
Default

Yes. A traced ball would carry some value to some people but it would be a fraction of what an untraced ball would sell for.

Last edited by packs; 10-25-2017 at 01:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:29 PM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,101
Default

Now that I've seen the Gehrig....it is not traced.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-25-2017, 02:34 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,281
Default

Have no idea what happens on an old baseball but usually if you buy old paper to produce a forged cut, new ink will always bleed into the old paper.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-25-2017, 03:28 PM
ATP's Avatar
ATP ATP is offline
Jeff P0tter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Monroe, Washington
Posts: 926
Default

Just a heads up (though I'm sure most already know this), but there are some very real looking Ruth reproduction baseballs out there. They look fine from scans obviously but are just printed on signatures. They are very deceiving from just a photo because the signature looks as it should, but it's not. There are ones with Ruth and Gehrig like this one. With enough digging you can usually turn them up and make sure it's not a match for one. They always looks a little weird in the ink coloring as well. Short of finding an exact match of the signatures it's hard to tell without seeing them in person.
__________________
Jeff Potter
Authentic Trading Post, LLC
www.AuthenticTradingPost.com
ebay: AuthenticTradingPost

http://www.ebay.com/str/jeffpotterautographs

Last edited by ATP; 10-25-2017 at 03:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-25-2017, 03:56 PM
Sophiedog Sophiedog is offline
Cha.rles He.nry
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 363
Default

Jeff is 100% Correct! The made up balls look just like the ball in this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-25-2017, 05:43 PM
bravos4evr's Avatar
bravos4evr bravos4evr is offline
Nick Barnes
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 757
Default

That ball looks printed to me.
__________________
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."- Tom Waits
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-25-2017, 06:18 PM
ATP's Avatar
ATP ATP is offline
Jeff P0tter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Monroe, Washington
Posts: 926
Default

I'm on my phone so it's hard to see both of these together to tell if it's a match until I make this post, but here's an example of a known replica style of Ruth, next to the one the OP was inquiring on.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ruthopex.jpg (70.9 KB, 199 views)
File Type: jpg ruthex.jpg (71.4 KB, 206 views)
__________________
Jeff Potter
Authentic Trading Post, LLC
www.AuthenticTradingPost.com
ebay: AuthenticTradingPost

http://www.ebay.com/str/jeffpotterautographs

Last edited by ATP; 10-25-2017 at 06:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-25-2017, 07:20 PM
ATP's Avatar
ATP ATP is offline
Jeff P0tter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Monroe, Washington
Posts: 926
Default

Here's another replica. I think this one is probably an exact match (I think the last one is too, but a little different thickness in the ink they used to print it, and a little different angle)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ruthex1.jpg (70.4 KB, 198 views)
File Type: jpg ruthopex.jpg (70.9 KB, 181 views)
__________________
Jeff Potter
Authentic Trading Post, LLC
www.AuthenticTradingPost.com
ebay: AuthenticTradingPost

http://www.ebay.com/str/jeffpotterautographs

Last edited by ATP; 10-25-2017 at 09:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:34 PM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default

It does look similar-no Gehrig on it though...

And thank you all for the replies!

Last edited by Jaymz023; 10-25-2017 at 09:41 PM. Reason: update post
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:40 PM
ATP's Avatar
ATP ATP is offline
Jeff P0tter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Monroe, Washington
Posts: 926
Default

I think the two I posted above are matches
__________________
Jeff Potter
Authentic Trading Post, LLC
www.AuthenticTradingPost.com
ebay: AuthenticTradingPost

http://www.ebay.com/str/jeffpotterautographs
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:01 PM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default

So with all that has been said, who here would Buy this ball? What would it be worth if a print? If authentic?

Personally, I'm so torn! Not sure what to do.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-26-2017, 04:33 AM
JollyElm's Avatar
JollyElm JollyElm is offline
D@rrΣn Hu.ghΣs
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,930
Default

I'm no autograph expert, but that Lou Gehrig looks like it has like twenty something letters in it, no??
__________________
Check out my bucket(s). Virtually everything is available for trade:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706
http://s1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee404/JollyElm/
http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/elmjack44/library/

I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.
Casey Stengel
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-26-2017, 06:21 AM
David Atkatz's Avatar
David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyElm View Post
I'm no autograph expert, but that Lou Gehrig looks like it has like twenty something letters in it, no??
No.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-26-2017, 07:25 AM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,101
Default

And again, these blue-green "printed" signatures are later in life Ruth signatures 1935-1945. Thus.....these balls with Ruth and Gehrig on it would make them highly improbable. Nice work Jeff.

Last edited by Bpm0014; 10-26-2017 at 07:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:08 AM
btcarfagno btcarfagno is offline
T0m C@rf@gn0
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 3,094
Default

Indeed. Tremendous work by Jeff and the knowledge sharing that will help the community at large. Really good stuff to out these.

Tom C
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:44 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,281
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymz023 View Post
So with all that has been said, who here would Buy this ball? What would it be worth if a print? If authentic?

Personally, I'm so torn! Not sure what to do.

I wouldn't buy anything posted.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:20 AM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default

You guys saved me some money! Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-26-2017, 02:04 PM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default

And I'm shocked Frank Garo signed off on the ball! How could he not tell it's printed and not signed? I guess maybe he might not have examined it in person.....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 93A217A2-5F00-49FC-8A1D-ACC6ADF0CB1D.jpg (6.3 KB, 184 views)
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-27-2017, 09:07 AM
RichardSimon's Avatar
RichardSimon RichardSimon is offline
Richard Simon
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New York City
Posts: 5,355
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymz023 View Post
And I'm shocked Frank Garo signed off on the ball! How could he not tell it's printed and not signed? I guess maybe he might not have examined it in person.....
Like I said earlier, I have disagreed with Mr Garo.
Shocked? Guess maybe?
Perhaps you should ask him.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history.
-
Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first.
www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports
--
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow

Last edited by RichardSimon; 10-27-2017 at 09:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-27-2017, 10:29 PM
Coralfarmer84 Coralfarmer84 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 34
Default

The last baseball in the original thread is up to $6000. Is someone getting fleased or is the concensus that's the only good one? Looked good to me, it was the description that had me thinking otherwise, 42 bids and has a Garo authenticity as well

Last edited by Coralfarmer84; 10-27-2017 at 10:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-28-2017, 04:01 PM
bravos4evr's Avatar
bravos4evr bravos4evr is offline
Nick Barnes
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 757
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coralfarmer84 View Post
The last baseball in the original thread is up to $6000. Is someone getting fleased or is the concensus that's the only good one? Looked good to me, it was the description that had me thinking otherwise, 42 bids and has a Garo authenticity as well
I guess the possibility exists that it was the ball used as the pattern for making the printed replicas, but I'd have to have a lot more info and ball in hand before I'd trust that to be true.
__________________
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."- Tom Waits
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-28-2017, 09:43 PM
Jaymz023 Jaymz023 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 26
Default

I think I decided when I go to buy one I will get one already PSA or JSA authenticated.

I am willing to even just buy a cut auto- doesnt have to be on a ball.... as long as its real...ill keep searching!

Thanks again for the discussion guys!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Opinions On Babe Ruth Photo bcookie Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 7 03-20-2015 10:21 PM
Opinions-Babe Ruth Signature.. greenmonster66 Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports 11 09-04-2014 12:02 PM
Babe Ruth Opinions Please! Sean1125 Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports 4 10-18-2013 05:18 PM
Babe Ruth opinions please! Sean1125 Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports 5 09-02-2013 09:56 PM
Babe Ruth Opinions joed25 Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports 15 10-04-2012 11:41 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:00 AM.


ebay GSB