On the easel...

[GKreindler]

Thanks for all of the wonderful comments, guys (except from you Ben, I hate you ;p ). I honestly do appreciate all of the encouraging things you all say, and I never really get sick of it. I mean, I will admit, it always feels a little weird when someone likes what I do (especially for an artist who deep down thinks he's a fraud), but it's the stuff like that that keeps us creative types from slacking. Or at least, I think it does. There's always been a big perfectionist in me that just needs these paintings to be perfect every time. And in my eyes, they never are. I guess that's why I keep pushing myself. I imagine it's something I'll go through the rest of my life. I guess that's why I freak out so much about the color of a button, an advertisement, a weather forecast, and all of the other intangible stuff. If the viewer enjoys the painting and it brings back great memories, then that's a good thing. But if I can bring them back and really make them feel what's going on in the painting - the sun shining, the crack of the bat, the chatter of the stadium crowd, etc. - then that's just gold.

Now Mark, you raise a good question. There's a lot that goes into it, from both an artistic side and a historical side. The latter is where I start. There have been some color photos/film of those old guys, usually dating back to the late 1930s. It's definitely few and far between, but it's super important. Combine that with a lot of book reading and hypothesizing, I'm able to come up with my base color. Now, that will always vary. Joe DiMaggio had an olive skin tone, while I've read some accounts that Gehrig would sometimes appear to be as dark as an African American. Someone like Red Rolfe would have fairer, pale skin to match his hair. Babe Ruth had a pretty normal, borderline tan complexion throughout his playing career, but when he retired and started playing golf regularly, his skin was almost milk chocolaty. I've actually made a list of player's attributes, stuff that I may have learned from books, seen in films, or have even read on driver's licenses. So, whenever I find something like a hair color, eye color or skin tone reference, it always finds its way into my reference. It's the kind of stuff that's really trivial and means nothing to most, but to me, it's gold!

Then artistically, it comes down to knowing that certain areas of a face will have certain variations that are common in most, like having the cheek and nose area be a little deeper and rosier in color, while the chin and jawline become rather neutral as they turn in space. If you notice, people with really dark hair sometimes have stubble that comes in very dark and can sometimes seem to make their jaw almost blue. Sandy Koufax was definitely like that.

More important than all of that though comes down to light. Light is what really shapes everything around us, why things look the way they do. You might notice that bright light shining on someone's face will create a larger difference between light planes and dark planes. The shadows will be more crisp, and will contain more reflected light bouncing into them. And depending on whether the sky is completely clear or not, that will affect the modulation of color temperature.a On a completely overcast day, you'll have deeper, earthier tones. Usually shadows will be warmer in temperature, while light planes will usually be cooler, as they're going to reflect a lot of the tones in the sky. You can see that sort of stuff in the Mathewson painting I did, especially in the nose, cheek, and forehead areas. You'll also notice that the separation between light and shade is much less dramatic than when the subject is in direct sunlight, so the shadows will have more of a 'fuzzy' look to them.

...

I just realized that this stuff might sound like Greek. But hopefully some of it makes sense.

Honestly, there's no set formula for any of this stuff, whether it's a skin tone, a sky color, or edge quality of a form, it all comes from observing real life. Then the hard part is taking all of that knowledge and observation and trying to make something look 3-dimensional on a 2-dimensional surface.

Phew!! I'm done. Sorry for the rant.

Oh, and don't worry, I don't think I'll ever be rich or famous. Either way, you guys are the people I love talking to. It's just wonderful that there's a forum for people to converse about such passions. One of mine is matzoh ball soup - I don't talk much about that here. But the other is baseball.

[terjung]

Wow. Just reading that Graig makes me realize that how little I know about painting. Amazing to hear your descriptions of shadows and facial toning as it relates to the weather. So much goes into your work that I can't even imagine it. No wonder they all look so realistic and as if they could walk right off the canvas. You have an amazing gift and talent! Thank you so much for letting us have a glimse into your world!

[Forever Young]

Here we go....fishing for more compliments......HATE is such a weak word.

Originally Posted by GKreindler

Thanks for all of the wonderful comments, guys (except from you Ben, I hate you). I honestly do appreciate all of the encouraging things you all say, and I never really get sick of it. I mean, I will admit, it always feels a little weird when someone likes what I do (especially for an artist who deep down thinks he's a fraud), but it's the stuff like that that keeps us creative types from slacking. Or at least, I think it does. There's always been a big perfectionist in me that just needs these paintings to be perfect every time. And in my eyes, they never are. I guess that's why I keep pushing myself. I imagine it's something I'll go through the rest of my life. I guess that's why I freak out so much about the color of a button, an advertisement, a weather forecast, and all of the other intangible stuff. If the viewer enjoys the painting and it brings back great memories, then that's a good thing. But if I can bring them back and really make them feel what's going on in the painting - the sun shining, the crack of the bat, the chatter of the stadium crowd, etc. - then that's just gold.

Now Mark, you raise a good question. There's a lot that goes into it, from both an artistic side and a historical side. The latter is where I start. There have been some color photos/film of those old guys, usually dating back to the late 1930s. It's definitely few and far between, but it's super important. Combine that with a lot of book reading and hypothesizing, I'm able to come up with my base color. Now, that will always vary. Joe DiMaggio had an olive skin tone, while I've read some accounts that Gehrig would sometimes appear to be as dark as an African American. Someone like Red Rolfe would have fairer, pale skin to match his hair. Babe Ruth had a pretty normal, borderline tan complexion throughout his playing career, but when he retired and started playing golf regularly, his skin was almost milk chocolaty. I've actually made a list of player's attributes, stuff that I may have learned from books, seen in films, or have even read on driver's licenses. So, whenever I find something like a hair color, eye color or skin tone reference, it always finds its way into my reference. It's the kind of stuff that's really trivial and means nothing to most, but to me, it's gold!

Then artistically, it comes down to knowing that certain areas of a face will have certain variations that are common in most, like having the cheek and nose area be a little deeper and rosier in color, while the chin and jawline become rather neutral as they turn in space. If you notice, people with really dark hair sometimes have stubble that comes in very dark and can sometimes seem to make their jaw almost blue. Sandy Koufax was definitely like that.

More important than all of that though comes down to light. Light is what really shapes everything around us, why things look the way they do. You might notice that bright light shining on someone's face will create a larger difference between light planes and dark planes. The shadows will be more crisp, and will contain more reflected light bouncing into them. And depending on whether the sky is completely clear or not, that will affect the modulation of color temperature.a On a completely overcast day, you'll have deeper, earthier tones. Usually shadows will be warmer in temperature, while light planes will usually be cooler, as they're going to reflect a lot of the tones in the sky. You can see that sort of stuff in the Mathewson painting I did, especially in the nose, cheek, and forehead areas. You'll also notice that the separation between light and shade is much less dramatic than when the subject is in direct sunlight, so the shadows will have more of a 'fuzzy' look to them.

...

I just realized that this stuff might sound like Greek. But hopefully some of it makes sense.

Honestly, there's no set formula for any of this stuff, whether it's a skin tone, a sky color, or edge quality of a form, it all comes from observing real life. Then the hard part is taking all of that knowledge and observation and trying to make something look 3-dimensional on a 2-dimensional surface.

Phew!! I'm done. Sorry for the rant.

Oh, and don't worry, I don't think I'll ever be rich or famous. Either way, you guys are the people I love talking to. It's just wonderful that there's a forum for people to converse about such passions. One of mine is matzoh ball soup - I don't talk much about that here. But the other is baseball.

[GrayGhost]

I had Matzoh ball soup once, and the best Creamy Tomato Basil extant last night..haha.

[yanks12025]

Graig,
How long does it take you to just draw the photos out.

[GKreindler]

Brian, thank you SO much. You're always welcome in!

Brock, it really varies with the sizes and complexities and all. The smaller portrait shots are only a few hours, but as we get larger and larger, they can take up to a week to get just right. And that can even be with gridding it all off. It's actually my least favorite part of the process, as I just want to get to the painting!

[Lordstan]

Graig,
I figured your answer would be something like that.
Though I do agree with terjung, you see things in a different way than the rest of us. Or perhaps it's just that you can put to words why people feel they way they do about specific works of paintings.
I think most of us don't specifically identify light/shade as the reason we like a painting. Most just say it looks realistic or use some other adjective without identfying that the control of light is the reason it looks the way it does.

Again, great stuff buddy.

Ben,
Cut Graig some slack, after all he is a painter, not a writer.
Perhaps he could loathe you....Is that better?

Mark

[perezfan]

I'm still waiting to hear why that little guy in the upper-right is leaning at a 45 degree angle. I keep reading and reading (and there's no explanation)

Graig, please clarify and try to put more effort into your replies.

Just kidding of course... this is the greatest thread in the whole forum, IMO and you can add me to the list of awe-struck admirers. Thanks so much for your incredibly insightful responses and for sharing your amazingly beautiful work!