A couple of "beauties" that did not go cheaply

[RichardSimon]

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/...hed-baseball-w

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/...aphed-baseball

[thetruthisoutthere]

Here is one of those "beauties."

I emailed Drew Max/Marc Goldman and asked "If Drew Max performed a forensic examination of the ink?"

Where is the aging on that ink Mr. Drew Max? The autographs are horrific, but "What about the ink, Mr. Drew Max? Did you physically examine the autographs on this baseball, Mr. Drew Max?"


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[jgmp123]

Lovely...glad to hear that Drew will stand behind his authentications in a court of law...

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Lovely...glad to hear that Drew will stand behind his authentications in a court of law...

If you pay him a big fat fee he will.
But perhaps Mr Morales should be asked, "how did that turn out."

[BrandonG]

The second Ruth ball is on eBay right now. And just FYI, both of those Harridge Baseballs are not genuine. I feel like calling Drew directly...Pretty ridiculous.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

If you pay him a big fat fee he will.
But perhaps Mr Morales should be asked, "how did that turn out."

Exactly. Ask Bryan Slaven the amount of money he paid Chris Morales to testify in court on behalf of Autograph Central (Lovert Bassett vs. Bryan Slaven, Case No. 10 SC 3866).

And in the end, the Morales testimony was struck and Mr. Slaven had to refund Mr. Lovert Bassett $7, 345.00.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by BrandonG

The second Ruth ball is on eBay right now. And just FYI, both of those Harridge Baseballs are not genuine. I feel like calling Drew directly...Pretty ridiculous.

Here is the auction you are referring to, Brandon. It, too, is authenticated by Drew Max who calls himself a FDE (Forensic Document Examiner).

Aside from the autographs being horrific, can you please explain what makes both baseballs not genuine? Thank you, Brandon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1936-HALL-OF...item3f1abd0abf

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[thetruthisoutthere]

Here is the Lou Gehrig from the above auction. Look how slowly drawn that garbage is. The seller is asking $35K or Best Offer? Seriously?

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[BrandonG]

There are obvious characteristics in the stamping that show me this is transfer type of application. The ink quality is not typical of stamping that was used for that 1934-1939 model, it shows dotting and inkjet characteristics. second, it is not at all crisp like genuine models, even worn stamping is still legible and crisp even if its faded. Third, in the bottom logo from the pictures you posted, in the "Cushioned Cork Center" stamping, the "K" in Cork, and the "C" in Center are touching and nearly on top of each other. This is what happens when a transfer type of stamp bends to the curvature of the ball whereas the sheet or transfer is flat, and when pressed onto a round surface it causes it to bend and overlap (think of when you used to use patterns on paper to carve pumpkins). Fourth, The ball itself is worn only behind the stamping areas, this is done so the ink doesn't bleed, but it's a complete giveaway. Look at the "Q" in "Quality", it has bled because the ball was too slick in that area to hold the ink. This would never happen with the metal stamps and ink quality used in that era. Also the leather and stitching are not consistent with that model ball.

PS, did I mention my authentication service yet? lol

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by BrandonG

There are obvious characteristics in the stamping that show me this is transfer type of application. The ink quality is not typical of stamping that was used for that 1934-1939 model, it shows dotting and inkjet characteristics. second, it is not at all crisp like genuine models, even worn stamping is still legible and crisp even if its faded. Third, in the bottom logo from the pictures you posted, in the "Cushioned Cork Center" stamping, the "K" in Cork, and the "C" in Center are touching and nearly on top of each other. This is what happens when a transfer type of stamp bends to the curvature of the ball whereas the sheet or transfer is flat, and when pressed onto a round surface it causes it to bend and overlap (think of when you used to use patterns on paper to carve pumpkins). Fourth, The ball itself is worn only behind the stamping areas, this is done so the ink doesn't bleed, but it's a complete giveaway. Look at the "Q" in "Quality", it has bled because the ball was too slick in that area to hold the ink. This would never happen with the metal stamps and ink quality used in that era. Also the leather and stitching are not consistent with that model ball.

PS, did I mention my authentication service yet? lol

Brandon, thank you very much. Would you mind if I sent that information directly to Drew Max and Marc Goldman?

Also, feel free to advertise your new Baseball Authentication Service as often as you like.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by BrandonG

There are obvious characteristics in the stamping that show me this is transfer type of application. The ink quality is not typical of stamping that was used for that 1934-1939 model, it shows dotting and inkjet characteristics. second, it is not at all crisp like genuine models, even worn stamping is still legible and crisp even if its faded. Third, in the bottom logo from the pictures you posted, in the "Cushioned Cork Center" stamping, the "K" in Cork, and the "C" in Center are touching and nearly on top of each other. This is what happens when a transfer type of stamp bends to the curvature of the ball whereas the sheet or transfer is flat, and when pressed onto a round surface it causes it to bend and overlap (think of when you used to use patterns on paper to carve pumpkins). Fourth, The ball itself is worn only behind the stamping areas, this is done so the ink doesn't bleed, but it's a complete giveaway. Look at the "Q" in "Quality", it has bled because the ball was too slick in that area to hold the ink. This would never happen with the metal stamps and ink quality used in that era. Also the leather and stitching are not consistent with that model ball.

PS, did I mention my authentication service yet? lol

Bravo. Real expertise and analysis... not meaningless forensic mumble jumbo.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Bravo. Real expertise and analysis... not meaningless forensic mumble jumbo.

+1

So tell us Mr. Max; what forensic examinations did you perform on those two baseballs?

Did you first attempt to date the items?

Did you analyze the ink?

And finally, what exemplars did you use to authenticate those autographs as authentic?

Mr. Max, did you happen to observe how slowly drawn those autographs were penned? And with that humongous-sized magnifying glass you use........

[Wymers Auction]

I think Ruth signed that ball with a tattoo gun!!!!

[thetruthisoutthere]

Ebay has removed the auction.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Ebay has removed the auction.

They are acting very quickly recently to remove the junk.
What a shame for that poor seller, no chance now for his $30,000 profit .
I guess he will now have to go to one of those "New Mexico or Iowa" auctions online and be lucky to get his money back.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

They are acting very quickly recently to remove the junk.
What a shame for that poor seller, no chance now for his $30,000 profit .
I guess he will now have to go to one of those "New Mexico or Iowa" auctions online and be lucky to get his money back.

I'm sure the seller will be back on one of those auction platforms to dump it.

Then again, maybe the seller will take the Goldman letter to heart and..........

Of course, it will probably cost him 2K for that request,

[shelly]

As I remember Drew Max's company used to advertise that they had a Million dollar policy from Lloyd's of London. This was to prove to you that if there was anything wrong with there examination you where covered. I guess Lloyd's figured out what was going on and dropped them like a hot potato. That of course is if he really had a policy. I will say this for Drew. When I sent him some of the Marino's pieces he hit fifty percent vs The Donald's 100%

[TyrusRCobb]

This thread is fascinating. I suppose, as a new collector, the lesson I take from all of this is you can't really trust the big guys. I've already discovered that sometimes you can't trust the little guys either. Does this mean that good collectors must have a hint of paranoia to go along with their knowledge base? Or do good, honest collectors simply form a community with other good, honest collectors?

[David Atkatz]

Drew Max is not one of the "big guys."

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by TyrusRCobb

This thread is fascinating. I suppose, as a new collector, the lesson I take from all of this is you can't really trust the big guys. I've already discovered that sometimes you can't trust the little guys either. Does this mean that good collectors must have a hint of paranoia to go along with their knowledge base? Or do good, honest collectors simply form a community with other good, honest collectors?

Are you referring to Drew Max as one of the "big guys?"

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Are you referring to Drew Max as one of the "big guys?"

Don't be so quick to put him down, he is a TV star and you are not .

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Don't be so quick to put him down, he is a TV star and you are not .

YouTube notwithstanding.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Don't be so quick to put him down, he is a TV star and you are not .

You got me there, Richard. Even my 2-3 hours of being interviewed by Armen Keteyian all ended up on the cutting room floor...

[shelly]

I can understand that.He was looking for a pretty face and you my friend did not meet that standard.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by shelly

I can understand that.He was looking for a pretty face and you my friend did not meet that standard.

Is that why you were in the shadows, Shelly...

I mean Eddie...

[sylbry]

The seller should make a trip to Las Vegas. I can think of a pawn shop that believes Drew Max is credible. Should have no time selling it for a nice profit.

[BrandonG]

Originally Posted by sylbry

The seller should make a trip to Las Vegas. I can think of a pawn shop that believes Drew Max is credible. Should have no time selling it for a nice profit.

That would be so awesome to see!!!

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by sylbry

The seller should make a trip to Las Vegas. I can think of a pawn shop that believes Drew Max is credible. Should have no time selling it for a nice profit.

+10!!!

[TyrusRCobb]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Are you referring to Drew Max as one of the "big guys?"

When I clicked on the link provided by the OP I was directed to what seems to be a rather large auction house. I was referring to the auction house as "the big guys." In point of fact, and showing my obvious ignorance about collecting, I haven't the slightest idea who Drew Max is. Having said that I'm going to look him up.

[shelly]

Chris, the reason I was in the shadows is that the light would have bounced off my head.
Ty. when you look him up please don't throw up.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by sylbry

The seller should make a trip to Las Vegas. I can think of a pawn shop that believes Drew Max is credible. Should have no time selling it for a nice profit.

I would watch that show for the first and only time if I knew that was going to happen.

[TyrusRCobb]

Originally Posted by shelly

Chris, the reason I was in the shadows is that the light would have bounced off my head.
Ty. when you look him up please don't throw up.

So having looked him up and seeing that he is on Pawn Stars is it fair to assume that he is in cahoots with the pawn shop? Perhaps cahoots is the wrong word. Rather, is he being paid to see what the pawn shop wants him to see?

[travrosty]

they have him on the show because he is local, like the card shop guy, the vintage toy guy, and the hotrod restorer guy, and almost all the other consultants they bring in.

they tried getting someone out of state in there on autographs and he screwed up just as bad as anyone ever has. so might as well save the travel expenses and use the local guy.

They are hearing from 20 different sources who is the best and who can and can't authenticate. they bring in someone else, and they get it in their ear even more, so they figure might as well go with the guy from vegas because no matter who they choose they keep hearing the same thing, criticism about the guy's ability, so they figure they can't win, but they need to bring in somebody.

They are not fighting the autograph wars, they are putting on a reality show.

They get the item lined up first then call in Drew, he has ample time to look at the auto before he even strolls in the front door.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

they have him on the show because he is local, like the card shop guy, the vintage toy guy, and the hotrod restorer guy, and almost all the other consultants they bring in.

they tried getting someone out of state in there on autographs and he screwed up just as bad as anyone ever has. so might as well save the travel expenses and use the local guy.

They are hearing from 20 different sources who is the best and who can and can't authenticate. they bring in someone else, and they get it in their ear even more, so they figure might as well go with the guy from vegas because no matter who they choose they keep hearing the same thing, criticism about the guy's ability, so they figure they can't win, but they need to bring in somebody.

They are not fighting the autograph wars, they are putting on a reality show.

They get the item lined up first then call in Drew, he has ample time to look at the auto before he even strolls in the front door.

Contrary to what Travis just posted, no one has screwed up more than Drew Max.

[shelly]

Travis, reality or not the guy is just bad. I think that they owe it to the rest of the autograph community to say we do not stand behind his opinion. People that watch this crap think that he is really some one that knows what he his doing.
Drew if you are reading this I would like to have you or your partner answer. Like I said before I gave you credit for getting half of what I sent you correct. It is like a coin flip heads or tails.

[packs]

I've posted this before but this local San Francisco shop's stock is made up entirely of Drew Max forgeries.

Here is the shop: http://www.antiquitiesca.com

I don't know if the owner is in on it but he seemed like a pretty huge jerk the last time I was there letting him know the same person signed all 3 signatures on his Jimi Hendrix album.

He also insists no one take photos of his pieces. Most likely so he can continue to sell fakes. Everything comes with an AAU sticker on it.

[Deertick]

Anyone else scream at the TV when someone brought in an Elvis contract? The first shot seen was abundantly clear that it was a COPY of a signed contract. Yet Rick calls in Drew, Drew takes out his personal Hubble.....GAGGGGGG!

[shelly]

If I am not mistaken this is the same company that was thrown out of Disney Land, Universal and Vegas. If I am wrong please accept my apology.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Deertick

, Drew takes out his personal Hubble.....GAGGGGGG!

That's pretty funny. I think he needs a bigger magnifying glass myself. Maybe he could bring one in on a dolly or something?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Contrary to what Travis just posted, no one has screwed up more than Drew Max.

john reznikoff batting zero percent on pawn stars, no one has a lower percentage than that.

people are still talking about mr. pacino. biggest screw up ever.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by shelly

Travis, reality or not the guy is just bad. I think that they owe it to the rest of the autograph community to say we do not stand behind his opinion. People that watch this crap think that he is really some one that knows what he his doing.
Drew if you are reading this I would like to have you or your partner answer. Like I said before I gave you credit for getting half of what I sent you correct. It is like a coin flip heads or tails.

people make the mistake that thinking if you are against one you must be for another, there are many whose opinion i dont stand behind. but the same crowd keeps saying that if you arent for the cast of characters who dont know al pacino from al ruddy, then you must be a forger or want the forgers to win.

same weak argument, painting someone as for this if they are not for that.

but the information blackout continues against the people who are authenticating these super high ticket items and when you want answers, you don't get any. Did you see haulsofshame.com lately? i see a truman signed baseball that drew max did not authenticate. but somehow the guy that did is taboo from talking as well as others can't talk about it or ask questions on how the heck that could happen? No one ever starts a thread on something like that but we see a mickey mantle or ted williams for the 50th time like we haven't seen that before?

Media and collector blackout in favor of those they like or those they are afriad of. People don't want to be blackballed from the hobby. why not investigate the fakes WHEREVER we find them? That's been my point all along.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Also, feel free to advertise your new Baseball Authentication Service as often as you like.

I agree that it's a much-needed service, and no one is more qualified than Brendon, but...

Since when have you become a moderator or site owner?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I agree that it's a much-needed service, and no one is more qualified than Brendon, but...

Since when have you become a moderator or site owner?

Who is "Brendon," Mr. Atkatz?

[packs]

Oh great another one of those threads.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by packs

Oh great another one of those threads.

I don't apologize, Packs. If Mr. Atkatz wants to "start" something, I will no longer ignore him.

That remark of his was unnecessary.

When I wrote "Also, feel free to advertise your new Baseball Authentication Service as often as you like," it was meant as a "Thank you" to Brandon.

[packs]

I'm with you. I don't think you're the one stirring the pot.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by packs

i'm with you. I don't think you're the one stirring the pot.

+1000
I don't know what Mr Atkatz said but if packs is upset about it, I am sure it is the usual Atkatz remark.

[BrandonG]

His response was supposed to be sort of a fun reply to my "PS, did I mention my authentication service yet? lol "

I didn't take it literally to start advertising all of the forum. Here, let me lighten things back up...Remember this?

[packs]

Its just annoying that when I'm trying to learn about what to stay away from in the hobby I have to deal with someone making no contribution to the thread and looking to start a fight for no reason at all.

A guy makes a helpful post that is beneficial to everyone on the board and another member thanks him for his knowledge only to be followed up by a stupid macho comment that boils down to "Know your role, rook." Give me a break.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by BrandonG

His response was supposed to be sort of a fun reply to my "PS, did I mention my authentication service yet? lol "

I didn't take it literally to start advertising all of the forum. Here, let me lighten things back up...Remember this?

I'm sure everyone here, except for one person, knew that, Brandon.

That graphic is hilarious!!!!