A Note to Sellers

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

This may mean nothing to the people that is concerns, but a prime example of not bidding on a questionable sellers item, no matter how bad I want has came up.

An item I have been wanting in my collection for a long time has finally came up on ebay and was willing to go all out for it. Then I saw who the seller was (I will not name the person), at that point I am not willing to give him any money or up the bid.

The seller has been brought up on the forum numerous times and does not seem to be concerned about his selling practices, so he is on my NO BID list. I know I am not a big dollar buyer, but I was willing to go the extra mile to get this item. I hope this is a practice held by other board members on questionable dealers.

I can spend my money with reputable dealers, even if I have to pay a little extra. I actually was going to back off on another deal until I noticed the seller, now some money is going into the hands of a seller with character.

In hopes this practice keeps prices down for them,

Lee Behrens

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Posted By: Eric Eichelkraut

that your reputation should procede you. This is an excellent post. My first post on this website concerned the morality, honesty, and class with which vintage baseball card dealers employ. Many high end sellers treat most collectors like dirt, especially if they don't know you. On the other end, you have those with zero class, trying to rip you off. Lee, you made a great choice in not bidding because of the sellers bad reputation, even though you wanted the card. Way to stick to your morals...even though some can not!!

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Posted By: runscott

- that unscrupulous dealers lose in the long run. Still, just as we stick to our guns, they stick to theirs. There are two auction houses in particular that I refuse to deal with (Lee is very familiar with one of them!) - the other one has had a lot of great stuff that I have passed on, simply because he screwed me on shipping and handling ONE time. He could have made the $10 he ripped me off on in one deal alone! Oh well, cough,cough...Verkman...I guess as long as I can live without his cards and he can live without my money, it's great for everyone!

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Posted By: jay behrens

Part of the reason I have so much respect for Mark Macrae is becuase when I first moved to CA I was very into my punk rock phase at that point. He was the only dealer that did not try to hide his material and make sure I didn't try to steal it.

I got a good chuckle out of a guy who was listening in on teh conversation Mark and I were having and he remarked, "I never would have guessed anyone that looked like you would know so much about tobacco cards".

Just goes to prove, never make assumptions about the person on the other side of the table, other than he has money in his pocket you want and want more of it in the future.

Jay

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Posted By: jeff s

while i never had a punk rock phase, i was spending four figures at shows before i turned 18 ... lots of dealers ignored me or were simply unfriendly ("umm, that isn't within your price range, son"). those who were friendly are still reaping the benefits.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Lee, what card is it of mine that you really want? Maybe I will close the auction and just send it to you.
sorry, probably a bad joke, dan.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

...and that is no small thing for a guy with a shaved head!

I totally agree with you and support your decision to STAT AWAY from sellers with shat-reputations. I would do exactly the same, even if one of them came up with a Bresich Williams Matty for auction...I wouldn't drop a dime for it. One bad deal, one shady transaction...it's enough for me to stay away, too. They hurt themselves in the long-run, and as we expose them on this Board to other traders (people who do drop serious coin on cards) they'll learn that screwing people is NOT the way to do business, because they know the rep already and won't bid. You do it on deal for a few bucks, then you lose lotsa lettuce on later deals. Karma baby: what goes around comes around. (Karma: ie: I think Roy Huff will like meet his demise someday when a stack of cut-up enclopedias and TV Guides falls on him from several stories up.)

Good for you, Lee. Hold to your standard and withhold any bidding on anything sold by shat-sellers. I'm right there with ya...and, I don't care what kind of "awards" or "titles" are bestowed upon them by eBay or anyone else (like that Square Trade garbage, etc.) I think they are, in many cases, the worst and sleaziest of the bunch.

-dan

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Posted By: jeff s

i think that the best result for Roy would be if encyclopedias (uncut-up) fell on his head. that would hurt a great deal more.

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Posted By: leon

While I cringe at some people, if I see a card I want I will still buy it. For me it's just business. Does that mean I will take getting scr****. Hell NO !! But if I see a card I want from ...oh say....Verkman....I will still buy it.....and my bad experience (again, he gave an immediate refund) with him will not come into play on the new situation....and actually I didn't even like his demeanor when I met him....but I don't care....I will still buy from him...sorry guys, and girl, it's just the way I feel.....regards all

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Posted By: TBob

last week on Verkman. I was shafted 7 years ago and cringed as I passed on a lot of his stuff I needed over the years. I finally got deperate and bid in an auction of his a couple of weeks ago on a tough T207, ending my long boycott, and won the card. I sent in the money, only to get a response and a subsequent refund, when he claimed he didn't get my last email bid. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that my email bid was the only one in his whole auction which wasn't received (the card sold for the exact amount of my maximum bid) but as more than one person has told me, they think he has seen where I have criticized him on this board and the bid was intentionally not entered. Who knows? It may have been an unintentional error on receipt but it was enough for me...

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Posted By: leon

I will agree on that one....if I know they totally screwed me I might boycott them....or might not...depends on how bad I wanted the card....like a fellow collector said today...."I'm not going to dinner with him, I am buying a card I want"....but still if they repeatedly screwed me what's the cents (pun intended) in wasting my time AND getting my hopes up...kind of like a girlfriend that stands you up (well sort of )....regards all

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

More stuff I would like but this time it's Broaday Rick. Lots of nice M101-2's but no bids here, just a watch item.

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

I don't buy raw cards from Rick. One reason is that he spontaneously admitted to me on the phone that the presses wrinkles out of cards with a plastic spoon.

I don't need to deal with that kind of nonsense.

I'd buy slabbed from him, probably.

bruce

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Posted By: David

Bruce provided the perfect quote, that can also be applied to other areas of the hobby: "I don't need to deal with that kind of nonsense."

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

...but that's all.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I am not a seller so I look at things only from a buyers standpoint. I would never buy from Verkman as long as I live for one simple reason. A couple of years ago David Festberg was running an auction. And in that auction was a set of 1951 Topps Current All-Stars I was looking to bid on. I already have the hole set of Connie Mack All-Stars and wanted to add that set to my collection. Well you think Verkman running his own catolog auctions with all his money would let people who collect a chance to win some cards. But no he ran the price up so high on the set I could not afford it and he won the set. Then in his next catolog he is selling theses cards one at a time for prices which were unheard of. In my book that is just being a very greedy person. I would not bid on any of his auction I don't care what it is. He can take it and stick it in his ass. Rob

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Posted By: Robert

Sorry I forgot to sign in that last responce was from me. Bigb13 Robert

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Posted By: David Williams

That's got to be one of the most pathetic things I've ever read - you won't do business with someone because they have more money than you and values an item higher than you do. Dealers are in this to make a living. From your writing, it doesn't sound like he bought them for any other reason than to resell them. If he'd bought them to spite you, I could understand your frustration. But blaming a dealer because you're too cheap to pay market - that's pretty sad.

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Posted By: Robert

You are Pathetic. You must be one of those greedy bastards who try to make as much as you can off of the public. Sounds like you don't like to collect cards you just enjoy as much money as you can make off of them. Its because people like you I still enjoy going to card shows where you can get your best deals. Not all of us have unlimited funds. Thank God most of the dealers I have dealt with are you like you. Some still do care about the collector.

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Posted By: jay behnres

Robert, unless you have NEVER bought a lot of cards for one or two that really wanted and resold the rest to recoup expenses adn possibley make more money than you spent on the lot, then you have no grounds to be upset anyone.

If someone is willing to pay more for something you want than you are, then what that person does with it is really none of your concern. if you do learn that they are gonna resell them, then this lets you know that the cards are worth more than you thought and next time they come available you had better be prepared to spend more money for them.

In every Mastro auction, there are a number of lots that are bought by dealers strictly for resale. I would love to be able to bid and win some of those lots myself, but I do not have the money to this and do not begrudge a dealer who does win and can make money off it.

Jay

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Posted By: Robert

Hi Jay I guess you are right. It just pisses you off sometimes when you work hard for you money all week pay all of your bills and try to get involved in collecting. After paying your bills most people don't have that much left to play with. It just proves the more money someone has the more money they want. Some are just very greedy people. What happened to the days you could go into a card shop and buy a card. Now a days its all auctions and all money. It takes all the fun out of it. Let me ask you do you know of any forums who have mostly collectors instead of dealers like this one? PS if you can find a card shop still open you are lucky. Rob

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

Hey I'm a their generation "collector" myself and I would like to say SLOW DOWN. I too remember the days of card shops when they tried to rip innocent kids off saying that cards where suppose to have creases in them. Those days are way better because of the internet and great auction houses today that find use the material that we have been dreaming of are whole life. All I know is that if it wasn't for the internet I wouldn't know the great "collectors" I do today and wouldn't have some of my most prized cardsand photo's. As for the people you are blind bashing on this board, I think you better do some homework before you type. You are talking about some of the top "collectors" in the world. Who are you to judge? What great accomplishments have you made to the collecting world? By the way Hi everyone I'm back. Sorry Elliot. I know it's my first post in a long while but I had to say something as one collector to another (collector used loosely) I will start a new thread to discuss my absence further. I all is well and my wife is doing great!!! For those who don't know me I'm snider4prez on ebay, and I look forward to posting again.
Trevor

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Posted By: David Williams

On the other hand, what about the people who were fortunate enough to just buy the singles they wanted out of the set?

Look, I don't think highly of many of the dealers out there, but to fault someone for simply doing what is in his best business interests is rediculous. If it was a truly unique item, like say the rare Current All-Stars Roberts, etc., and a collector bought them while already owning copies, I could understand the frustration.

But to slam someone openly, on a public message board, because you didn't have enough money or weren't willing to pay enough for an item isn't a proper thing to do.

Finally, this is a capitalist society...it's just called good business. I'd be more disappointed at not paying the auction price for the item I really wanted. Jealousy after the fact is pointless.