FS: 1887 Detroit Wolverines CDV (Pirated Copy)

[Joe_G.]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

The mount is from Charles A. Millard's (b. 1834 - d. 1890-91) studio. He was in business as Powelson & Millard until Powelson left the studio sometime after 1880. The 1880-81 Detroit business directory lists Millard at 224 Woodward Ave. It just so happens that the Wolverines played at Recreation Park, which would be just a block east of Woodward.

Detroit photographers during the late 19th century has been a longtime interest of mine, so please excuse me going overboard on this response. I began studying them while researching Tomlinson Studio for an article in OC magazine (2007) and have continued to learn more as time and resources permit. Over 1/3 of the 34 photographers with a Detroit address during the late 1880s were located near each other on Woodward Avenue including Millard and Tomlinson. With respect to Recreation Park, these Studios were 1.4 miles away from Detroit's ball park.

Regarding the history of Mr. Charles A. Millard, he purchased his studio from Powelson in 1879 and would run it until his passing in January of 1891. Millard Studio would continue under his brother-in-law Mr. Lyman B. Avery until 1894 when the Studio, equipment, and negatives were purchased by Huntington & Clark.

I have a great image from 1894 that shows several of the studios.

The image captures the businesses from 212 Woodward (far right) to 240 Woodward and beyond (240 Woodward being the six story Schwankovsky music store bldg. at left).

So in this image you can see following Photographers / Photographic Supplies Store:

• 212 Woodward: Alfred G. McMichael - Photographer (Directory indicates McMichael at 210 but moved to 212 by time photo was taken)
• 214 Woodward: Joseph Kirsch - Photographer
• 216 Woodward: George R. Angell - Photographic Supplies
• 222 Woodward: Charles H. Smith - Photographer
• 224 Woodward: Huntington & Clark - Photographers (Store front reads "Millard Photographer" with "Successors To" added above)
• 236 Woodward: Edwin H Husher - Photographer (has "Tomlinson Photographs" sign on side of store)

Close-Up (with a little higher contrast). . .

You can see C. H. Smith advertising "Life Size Picture Free with Purchase of Dozen Cabinets". You can also see a guy making prints if you look close at the middle of the image. That could be Charles H. Smith himself. Next door is 224 Woodward, home of Huntington & Clark Photographers (Proprietors of Millard Studio).

Circling back to your CDV . . .
Tomlinson sold the Detroit team pictures across North America, advertised in various papers after Detroit won the Championship. They marketed the images well and sold quite a few (many survive in the hobby today). Your 2nd gen print (picture of a picture) could have been created in secret by someone at Millard prior to 1894 (when the Millard name ceased) or could have been created sometime later (late 19th century, early 20th century) and simply placed on an old mount from a Detroit studio (in this case, an old Millard CDV). It is a neat piece but many collectors shy away from such items (similar to the non-period prints created from Goodwin negatives). Albumen paper was last commercially produced and sold in 1929 although photographers can still create albumen prints following the same 19th century procedures with similar but different paper.

Manny, can you share how you obtained the CDV?

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Joe_G.

Circling back to your CDV . . .

Impressive research Joe!

[1880nonsports]

research should be your middle and last names When do you begin on Jimmy Hoffa and his Detroit connections?

BTW - I have run into quite a few pirated images from the 1880's while collecting women base ball players and non-sport images of luminaries and hooligans. Not at all uncommon.

[drcy]

The CDV is from the 1800s. The microscopic images are of an albumen print.

[Joe_G.]

Originally Posted by drcy

The CDV is from the 1800s. The microscopic images are of an albumen print.

Hello David, thanks for chiming in. I'd agree that the mount is likely an original from Millard and dates to the 1800s. But the albumen print, is there a reason you definitively date it to the 1800s when albumen paper was sold through 1929? Just curious.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Joe_G.

Hello David, thanks for chiming in. I'd agree that the mount is likely an original from Millard and dates to the 1800s. But the albumen print, is there a reason you definitively date it to the 1800s when albumen paper was sold through 1929? Just curious.

Whatever the theoretical possibility, the photographer of such a photo wouldn't make an albumen print in the 20th century. Many theoretical possibilities and arguments are pie-in-the-sky, meaning they are so highly improbable that they can be dismissed in the real world situation. I'd bet that a 20th-century baseball albumen photo doesn't exist.

[insidethewrapper]

Joe: I don't know much about photography, but couldn't anyone take the photo from one mount and place on another mount (ie, off Tomlinson and place on another mount )? Looks like the same photo that has the Kalamazoo Bats mount. .

[Joe_G.]

Thanks Rob, Henry, & Kevin.

Originally Posted by drcy

Whatever the theoretical possibility, the photographer of such a photo wouldn't make an albumen print in the 20th century. Many theoretical possibilities and arguments are pie-in-the-sky, meaning they are so highly improbable that they can be dismissed in the real world situation. I'd bet that a 20th-century baseball albumen photo doesn't exist.

I always defer to you on such matters. You've been a great resource for many of us over the years including when you inspected my old large format "Champions of the League" composite some 13 years ago . . . you concluded it was a mid-20th century creation. I've read that albumen paper was the most widely used photographic printing material through 1895 and didn't realize it would become so rare by the time 20th century rolled around.

Out of curiosity, in your opinion, how close could someone come to creating an authentic appearing (circa 1880s) albumen print today?

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Joe: I don't know much about photography, but couldn't anyone take the photo from one mount and place on another mount (ie, off Tomlinson and place on another mount )? Looks like the same photo that has the Kalamazoo Bats mount.

This is possible but not recommended if soak the print as you will incur irreversible damage (more cracks, lower strength). I found this article interesting: http://albumen.conservation-us.org/science/

Manny's CDV is not the same variant found on K-Bat card. There are two 1887 images that were taken perhaps a minute or so apart.

Here is one of the two variants courtesy of NYPL, this imperial cabinet matches Manny's CDV. The imperial cabinets from Tomlinson have unbelievable clarity (consistent high quality seen from all the 1886, 1887, and 1888 photo shoots). Manny's CDV is a 2nd gen print (photo of a photo) and will lack this detail.

Here is the K-Bat (not mine), a slightly different image. NYPL has this 2nd version as an imperial cabinet as well (BB HOF also has both variants). Note that the K-Bat and Manny's CDV lack the clarity of the Tomlinson cabinets.

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by Joe_G.

Detroit photographers during the late 19th century has been a longtime interest of mine, so please excuse me going overboard on this response. I began studying them while researching Tomlinson Studio for an article in OC magazine (2007) and have continued to learn more as time and resources permit. Over 1/3 of the 34 photographers with a Detroit address during the late 1880s were located near each other on Woodward Avenue including Millard and Tomlinson. With respect to Recreation Park, these Studios were 1.4 miles away from Detroit's ball park.

Regarding the history of Mr. Charles A. Millard, he purchased his studio from Powelson in 1879 and would run it until his passing in January of 1891. Millard Studio would continue under his brother-in-law Mr. Lyman B. Avery until 1894 when the Studio, equipment, and negatives were purchased by Huntington & Clark.

I have a great image from 1894 that shows several of the studios.

The image captures the businesses from 212 Woodward (far right) to 240 Woodward and beyond (240 Woodward being the six story Schwankovsky music store bldg. at left).

So in this image you can see following Photographers / Photographic Supplies Store:

• 212 Woodward: Alfred G. McMichael - Photographer (Directory indicates McMichael at 210 but moved to 212 by time photo was taken)
• 214 Woodward: Joseph Kirsch - Photographer
• 216 Woodward: George R. Angell - Photographic Supplies
• 222 Woodward: Charles H. Smith - Photographer
• 224 Woodward: Huntington & Clark - Photographers (Store front reads "Millard Photographer" with "Successors To" added above)
• 236 Woodward: Edwin H Husher - Photographer (has "Tomlinson Photographs" sign on side of store)

Close-Up (with a little higher contrast). . .

You can see C. H. Smith advertising "Life Size Picture Free with Purchase of Dozen Cabinets". You can also see a guy making prints if you look close at the middle of the image. That could be Charles H. Smith himself. Next door is 224 Woodward, home of Huntington & Clark Photographers (Proprietors of Millard Studio).

Circling back to your CDV . . .
Tomlinson sold the Detroit team pictures across North America, advertised in various papers after Detroit won the Championship. They marketed the images well and sold quite a few (many survive in the hobby today). Your 2nd gen print (picture of a picture) could have been created in secret by someone at Millard prior to 1894 (when the Millard name ceased) or could have been created sometime later (late 19th century, early 20th century) and simply placed on an old mount from a Detroit studio (in this case, an old Millard CDV). It is a neat piece but many collectors shy away from such items (similar to the non-period prints created from Goodwin negatives). Albumen paper was last commercially produced and sold in 1929 although photographers can still create albumen prints following the same 19th century procedures with similar but different paper.

Manny, can you share how you obtained the CDV?

Joe:

As always, amazingly thorough research!

Kevin