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#1
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Hello Jerry, your summary on the packs is interesting although I differ on some accounts. One I'd enjoy discussing with the experts would be the ornate GQ pack. Can you provide any reference to the ornate GQ packs being used in 1888 to distribute N162 cards? Jay's packs date to May 1887 and Nov. 1889, neither being ornate. Likewise, the Round Album which was released in July of 1889 has the plain looking pack depicted (the N162 album, A36, still being offered). GQ was the "cheap" brand in 1887 and perhaps remained so until ATC merger, selling for only 5 cents/10 count pack (Old Judge and Dogs Head were both 10 cents/pack of 10). Maybe the ornate pack is post ATC merger, perhaps no cards inserted? Thoughts?
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Best Regards, Joe Gonsowski COLLECTOR OF: - 19th century Detroit memorabilia and cards with emphasis on Goodwin & Co. issues ( N172 / N173 / N175 ) and Tomlinson cabinets - N333 SF Hess Newsboys League cards (all teams) - Pre ATC Merger (1890 and prior) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers |
#2
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The dating is correct on the non-ornate GQ packs. They were marked on the inside shell which is different than most other types of dating I saw when collecting. Now I mainly collect rppc's of these types...
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Leon Luckey |
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Jerry
I will address a couple of things when time permits but off to dive Eagle Grill for most excellent crab cakes. The shop/window displays I'm talking about were those from around 1880 - a time period where I would doubt you have any VISUAL evidence. Gotta run.....
Leon - that Ramley one just SPECTACULAR - I collected RPPC's for a while related to tobacco overall. It's a great niche - so much unique stuff. |
#4
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Recently, in a neat little Antique shop in Oklahoma, I found this Plow Boy Tobacco Tin (circa 1910-1912).
Given the condition of it and its price, it was a must buy. Plow Boy Tobacco cards......1910 Chicago Cubs Evers ......................................... Brown .................................................. ..... Chance King Cole .............................................. Sheckard .................................... Lew Richie TED Z T206 Reference . |
#5
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1887 GQ-t1 (plain) N175 - 1888 GQ-t2 (ornate) N162. I know the GQ-t1 is advertised on a Round Album page. The two GQs must have sold at the same time at least for a long overlapping period similar to the OJ and the Dogs Head's brands. The GQ-t2 counter boxes are more plentiful than the GQ-t1 boxes and the N162 more plentiful than the N175s. The GQ-t2 packs were better sellers and as you say they were the cheaper smoke. Possibilities: 1. GQ-t1 had N175 - GQ-t2 N162 cards. (Counter boxes, pack and card match design.) 2. GQ-t1 had N175 and N162- GQ-t2 no cards. 3. Both GQs had both cards. ATC? Why? |
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Jerry-Can you show a Gypsy Queen Type 2 (ornate) pack with a tax stamp that would date it from 1887 or 1888?
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Jay - I've never seen a Gypsy Queen t2 pack, have you?
Last edited by jerrys; 06-19-2018 at 08:09 PM. |
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This is a fantastic thread - simply incredible stuff! I especially like the T213, T215, and T216 packs.
Are there any other New Orleans packs/packaging out there? Virginia Extra? Highly unlikely but I'll ask anyway - Tango Eggs, Mothers' Bread, Weil, Holsum, etc? I don't have any packs, but I do have the only metal El Principe de Gales box that I have been able to find.
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Collection: https://www.flickr.com/photos/132359235@N05/sets/ Ebay listings: https://www.ebay.com/sch/harrydoyle/...p2047675.l2562 |
#9
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Here is a Virginia Extra pack. It's not period (this one is 1920s), but the graphics would be exactly the same on a period pack, but most likely a slide and shell pack.
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For information on baseball-related cigarette and tobacco packs, visit www.baseballandtobacco.com. |
#10
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Per your options above, I believe Option 2 is most likely, the plain box was used for both N175 and N162. N162 cards may have also been inserted in OJ packs once the baseball season ended as it was a set that covered far more than baseball. It wasn't until 1889 that Goodwin, per the Tobacco Journal that I wrote about in the last issue of Old Cardboard, kept the baseball player portraits (N172s) in the packs year round. Regarding 5 cent packs such as GQ, there were others that had high quality cards inserted such as Duke's Best (N84 playing cards + N85 Postage Stamp cards), two color cards in one pack of 5 cent smokes. Here is a more complete, yet small image of the ornate pack courtesy of Jim Shaw (doesn't own it but shared image). After the ATC merger there were a lot of changes to the lesser brands, the distribution and packaging often changed (sometimes ceased altogether if experimenting with it failed). Enough about GQ Your dating on N28 and N29 cards are off a bit, it should state fall of 1888 for N28 and late summer of 1889 for N29. These cards were also distributed in more than just Richmond Straight Cut packs. I've mentioned this before on the forum and published some of the details in last issue of OC. I'll write on this a bit more in a separate thread as there is a good bit to share. More pics . . . Here are a couple images of a candy & tobacco store from Grand Haven, MI (dated on back as 1913). If you look hard at the shelf below the pipes (top) you will see OBAK, Fatima, and others. Henry, looks like the Tiger Chewing Tobacco tin at bottom center is a match to the one in your display.
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Best Regards, Joe Gonsowski COLLECTOR OF: - 19th century Detroit memorabilia and cards with emphasis on Goodwin & Co. issues ( N172 / N173 / N175 ) and Tomlinson cabinets - N333 SF Hess Newsboys League cards (all teams) - Pre ATC Merger (1890 and prior) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers |
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Neither belong to me, but both incredible items.
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For information on baseball-related cigarette and tobacco packs, visit www.baseballandtobacco.com. |
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The counterfeit "GQ" packet posted earlier in this thread must have existed at some point. It would be the ATC variation, possibly early-mid 1890's? Has anyone seen a true pack of that design?
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#13
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Joe
pretty sure copied from some other image - NOT A PACK. It actually looks a little familiar.....
Jon - can you provide a larger picture of the image next to the Mono pack? I'm old and can't see anything that small (mainly a problem when I need to pee). Last edited by 1880nonsports; 06-20-2018 at 09:34 AM. |
#14
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Henry - unfortunately that's the largest scan I have. However, if you look to the upper portion of the photo, you will see large Mono cigarette display packs (similar to the Ramly display packs from Leon's post).
__________________
For information on baseball-related cigarette and tobacco packs, visit www.baseballandtobacco.com. |
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Here is an 1888 VB pack (A&G used ~3 year old tobacco). VB packs are easier to come by than many others and consistently have dated over-prints on the tax stamp to allow accurate dating of the pack. I have three 1888 VB packs dating from Feb. 28th to Dec. 18th, 1888 and all are "Crop of 1885".
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Best Regards, Joe Gonsowski COLLECTOR OF: - 19th century Detroit memorabilia and cards with emphasis on Goodwin & Co. issues ( N172 / N173 / N175 ) and Tomlinson cabinets - N333 SF Hess Newsboys League cards (all teams) - Pre ATC Merger (1890 and prior) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers |
#16
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Dogs Head packs having a two card premium is a surprise. You suggest option two: GQ-t2 no card - however the likeness of the design of the card to the pack suggest they were related therefore packaged together. They were printed at the same time for the same reason. You can't prove a negative - so why not consider option 3? In my belief of option 1 or option 3 I show images of the GQ and OJ packs as sources of the N162 on my website. What must I do??? http://bcc.anaclubs.org/n162.htm Yes, Jim Shaw has had his great tobacco pack collection website on the Internet for many years. As for the A&G - not scientific, can't set your watch by my dates, the year is as close as I could determine. The Goodwin group was tough in determining the card/pack relationships also I failed to determine how the 175 large card was distributed. The Charles Gross Co. was tough also - I received some help from Keith Obermann to correctly attributing the Kalamzoo Bats cards. Hello - Henry still connected? Have no feedback for page 45. |
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For you non-sport guys: The Nebo pack in the postcard looks to have reversed colors than the packs seen still out there today.
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#18
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These are absolutely amazing! I would love to buy a pack some day, just to have as a display piece....
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Working on the 1957 Topps set. |
#19
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This is an Awesome Thread
I look Forward to More Pics |
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