One day i'll learn....

[brooklynbaseball]

I've found myself in a difficult position....
I recommended a large auction house to a family member to help him complete a set I had sold him. I begged him to move slowly and research his purchases carefully before purchasing anything. Feeling secure, he purchased 2 cards from said large auction house for a decent sum of money, and asked me to get them slabbed for him. Obviously, this did not go well. Both failed. To make a long story short, the auction house asked for the cards back to review, reviewed them themselves and SURPRISE, they say the cards are, in their opinion, authentic. They have offered to have the other major tpa review the cards, BUT will not pay to have them issue a loa or have the card slabbed. My questions to you as a panel are;

If the card is not slabbed or an loa is not issued how can they say the card has been authenticated?

Should the auction house be responsible for the fees paid to the original tpa, in the event the card is not authenticated by the second tpa. Or at least pay for the card to be slabbed or an loa to be provided?

Why should the auction houses opinion, since they have a vested financial interest mean anything?

I'd like to post photos of the autographs in question but am unsure if my upload was done correctly. Any opinions and/or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[vintagechris]

FWIW, I actually think they are both authentic. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in but I think they are ok.

[jgmp123]

That Fred Clarke looks drawn...very bumpy....if you google some other examples you will see that he isn't that inconsistent.

[RichardSimon]

What auction house sold these without a COA from the holy ones?

[packs]

I asked a similar question about a seller's "guarantee to pass authentication" in their description last week. Mostly everyone felt like the seller is only responsible for the purchase price.

[JimStinson]

"I've found myself in a difficult position....
I recommended a large auction house to a family member to help him complete a set I had sold him"

I would say since you recommended them you should be responsible for the fees and any other restitution. Including buying him dinner..

[JimStinson]

Just don't Recommend the restaurant....Let HIM pick the eatery

[mighty bombjack]

Please share the name of the auction house.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by brooklynbaseball

If the card is not slabbed or an loa is not issued how can they say the card has been authenticated?

Did they say it had been authenticated? Did they say by whom?

Originally Posted by brooklynbaseball

Should the auction house be responsible for the fees paid to the original tpa, in the event the card is not authenticated by the second tpa. Or at least pay for the card to be slabbed or an loa to be provided?

No, they should not. If you want a TPA, buy one with a TPA. Again, what did the listing say/promise?

Originally Posted by brooklynbaseball

Why should the auction houses opinion, since they have a vested financial interest mean anything?

It depends on the house and who they have working for them, doesn't it?

Who was the house?

[brooklynbaseball]

It would not be my decision to put the name of the auction house on such a widely read forum. I can state that it is indeed a major, well known, and to my knowledge, highly respectable house. They do not use tpa's on all of their auctions, and I have used them for well over a decade and spent quite a bit of money with them without any major authentication issues. On one occasion I had an issue, and was promptly refunded. I am dumbfounded that they are taking this line on the issue.

[keithsky]

Don't understand why guys go on here complaining of problems with auction houses then refuse to say who they are. What are you afraid of? Lawsuit?How are the rest of us know who to avoid or to look for those problems if we bid with them? Maybe if they know people aren't happy with something and they see it in print they'll know to change things or make it right. All your doing in protecting the auction house since they don't see there name being complained about. If you have proof they do something wrong or your not happy say who it is.

[pooh528]

Yeah, I am not sure why you wouldn't name the auction house, but i guess that is your right

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by brooklynbaseball

It would not be my decision to put the name of the auction house on such a widely read forum. I can state that it is indeed a major, well known, and to my knowledge, highly respectable house. They do not use tpa's on all of their auctions, and I have used them for well over a decade and spent quite a bit of money with them without any major authentication issues. On one occasion I had an issue, and was promptly refunded. I am dumbfounded that they are taking this line on the issue.

Some auction houses have in-house authenticators, and some don't. Since you are telling us that they took a look at it themselves, it would help to know who was doing the looking. I for one feel that your questions cannot be honestly answered without that info. That's all.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by keithsky

Don't understand why guys go on here complaining of problems with auction houses then refuse to say who they are. What are you afraid of? Lawsuit?How are the rest of us know who to avoid or to look for those problems if we bid with them? Maybe if they know people aren't happy with something and they see it in print they'll know to change things or make it right. All your doing in protecting the auction house since they don't see there name being complained about. If you have proof they do something wrong or your not happy say who it is.

The OP may be concerned that the auction house may ban him and his friend if they are outed. In addition, since this issue has not yet been resolved yet, the auction house may take an even harder line than they have so far if they are outed. For example, person complains on board that they haven't received their winnings from the auction house yet. Response: Have you called the auction house yet? In this case, the auction house is involved, but they would probably prefer to keep things low key until the issue is resolved. If after all is said and done, and the auction still absolutely refuses a refund or the buyer is not satisfied, then out the auction house. IMHO.

[brooklynbaseball]

Originally Posted by glchen

The OP may be concerned that the auction house may ban him and his friend if they are outed. In addition, since this issue has not yet been resolved yet, the auction house may take an even harder line than they have so far if they are outed. For example, person complains on board that they haven't received their winnings from the auction house yet. Response: Have you called the auction house yet? In this case, the auction house is involved, but they would probably prefer to keep things low key until the issue is resolved. If after all is said and done, and the auction still absolutely refuses a refund or the buyer is not satisfied, then out the auction house. IMHO.

Thank you for saving me the time to state what I felt was pretty obvious. The decision is also not mine, as I am not the purchaser. I merely asked for opinions, for help, in a matter I feel is unjust. If those who are familiar with the signatures care to offer an opinion, thank you. If someone cares to opine on what they would do in this situation, again thank you. I come on here to learn and perhaps assist others, not to be chastised.

[JimStinson]

I would side with BrooklynBaseball on this , No point in mentioning the auction companies name. Its a pretty safe bet they are already reading the posts here and know who they are. If it was NOT a reputable auction company I'm sure that the name would have already been mentioned. And a reputable "name" auction house (or dealer) will "Do the right thing". So its going to have a happy ending anyway. No one should have to "jump through hoops" to enjoy their hobby as long as they are realistic.
If the autographs are REAL or not is IRRELEVANT. The only important factor here from a business point of view is that the buyer is happy with his purchase. Its the sellers duty to see that through.
But an important lesson can be learned from all of this and that is .....read the fine print

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

I would side with BrooklynBaseball on this , No point in mentioning the auction companies name. Its a pretty safe bet they are already reading the posts here and know who they are. If it was NOT a reputable auction company I'm sure that the name would have already been mentioned. And a reputable "name" auction house (or dealer) will "Do the right thing". So its going to have a happy ending anyway. No one should have to "jump through hoops" to enjoy their hobby as long as they are realistic.
If the autographs are REAL or not is IRRELEVANT. The only important factor here from a business point of view is that the buyer is happy with his purchase. Its the sellers duty to see that through.
But an important lesson can be learned from all of this and that is .....read the fine print

Yet I see you are not answering his questions. Do you feel, as I do, that they cannot be answered without knowledge of the auction house or the original auction listing?

Brooklyn- I could tell you what I would do in this situation, but I fear that you will only feel further chastised if I do. I'm sorry that you have been put in this unfortunate situation. I really hope it can be resolved and that the seller stands behind their product/reputation.

[alexautographs]

I would understand why you wouldn't want to disclose the name of the auction house, since so many are in league with each other (collusion, bogus auction results, same inept authenticators, etc.), and you might get blacklisted.

Bear in mind that every dealer and auctioneer makes mistakes...even me (once in a million times). But when they start hiding behind only the "chosen" authenticators, ignoring all others, then it may be time to start shopping elsewhere.

[JimStinson]

Bingo !

[Wymers Auction]

I actually respect brooklynbaseball's choice not to name them. Give them a chance to right their wrong without smearing them.