NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 05-26-2018, 09:31 AM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozumeleno View Post
That's my article, so I'll chime in.

First, since there's some confusion, as a point of clarification, my definition is pre-1940 cards (i.e. 1939 counts while 1940 doesn't). I realize there are some 1939 issues that technically came after the 'start' of the war but trying to separate those out is virtually impossible.

There's no consensus on it as we see here. My pre-1940 date hinges on the fact that these are called 'pre' war cards. A 1940 card, in my opinion, shouldn't be considered pre-war because war was already occurring. And using dates of when paper rationing started, when cards declined, etc., never really made sense to me. They're called pre-war not pre-paper shortage, etc. I can respect differing opinions on that. I'd just disagree a little there. I mean, if there was no paper shortage at all, does that mean we don't have a pre-war era?

I can understand a 1945 date more than I can 1941, to be honest. I interpret pre-war as before the war began but others may interpret it as when the war ended. Again, I don't agree but I can understand that. But 1941 won't ever make sense to me because pre-war cards encompass more than simply U.S. issues. If we're using a country's (in this case, the U.S.) entry date into WWII as the determining factor that means pre-war dates would differ depending on the country someone is in. To me, the era should be the same no matter where you live and having pre-war eras with different dates around the globe seems like it would be far too confusing.

All of that said, I realize there's no consensus, nor will there ever be. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it
Why not use 1931 when Japan invaded Manchuria? Why not use 1935 when Italy invaded Ethiopia and Germany invaded the British and French controlled Saar Valley? Why not choose 1937 when Japan invaded China? Why do you use the date of 1939 when England declared war on Germany instead of the others? You say that was because war was going on, but it was going on those other dates too.

We use World War 2 as a defining event because it is the only time the world was at war. At its peak, there were shooting wars in Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania. Australia and North America were attacked by the Axis. South American was the only region not under direct attack, although there was fighting with uboats in the Caribbean and South Atlantic. Many Latin American countries declared war on the Axis and Brazil fought along side the Allies.

The 1941 date is the only one that makes sense to me. In 1939 it was a European war much like WW1, Germany vs. England. The "World War" broke out in 1941 with 2 events. Germany breaking their non aggression pact with
Russia bringing them into the war. Japan deciding to go to war with USA, England and the Netherlands and attacking Pearl Harbor. These two events brought the other 3 major military forces into the war, Russia, Japan and USA and caused most countries in the world to align themselves with one side or the other. I choose the date when the war started in full for the world and not a European date or date of another regional conflict.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:30 AM
ruth_rookie's Avatar
ruth_rookie ruth_rookie is offline
Jason “the bambino” Babin
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 120
Default

I just did a search for “pre-war cards” on eBay, which listed everything 1941 and earlier. And since we all know eBay knows everything (LOLOLOL) that settles it.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:39 AM
conor912's Avatar
conor912 conor912 is offline
C0nor D0na.hue
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
The middle one is disqualified because I can't pronounce. it.
.
I thought Interregnum was something you rub on sore joints?
__________________
Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-26-2018, 11:40 AM
Cozumeleno's Avatar
Cozumeleno Cozumeleno is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 784
Default

I use 1939 because that is the most generally accepted date for the beginning of World War II. Really, you could list all sorts of conflicts that appeared before then. But 1939 is hardly my own random date and, whether the best theoretical date or not, it's the date that is most accepted universally as 'the beginning' of World War II.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Why not use 1931 when Japan invaded Manchuria? Why not use 1935 when Italy invaded Ethiopia and Germany invaded the British and French controlled Saar Valley? Why not choose 1937 when Japan invaded China? Why do you use the date of 1939 when England declared war on Germany instead of the others? You say that was because war was going on, but it was going on those other dates too.

We use World War 2 as a defining event because it is the only time the world was at war. At its peak, there were shooting wars in Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania. Australia and North America were attacked by the Axis. South American was the only region not under direct attack, although there was fighting with uboats in the Caribbean and South Atlantic. Many Latin American countries declared war on the Axis and Brazil fought along side the Allies.

The 1941 date is the only one that makes sense to me. In 1939 it was a European war much like WW1, Germany vs. England. The "World War" broke out in 1941 with 2 events. Germany breaking their non aggression pact with
Russia bringing them into the war. Japan deciding to go to war with USA, England and the Netherlands and attacking Pearl Harbor. These two events brought the other 3 major military forces into the war, Russia, Japan and USA and caused most countries in the world to align themselves with one side or the other. I choose the date when the war started in full for the world and not a European date or date of another regional conflict.
__________________
Primary Interests:
T205 Gold Border (208/208)
T206 White Border (520/520)
T207 Brown Background (186/200)
T218 Champions (147/153)
E90-1 (77/121)
E91-A/B/C (44/99)
N28/N29/N162/N184 Champions Run (25/200)
W512/W513 (94/100)
1933-38 Goudey Run (128/445)
1939 Play Ball (81/161)

OBC Member

Creator of:
www.prewarcards.com
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-26-2018, 03:57 PM
familytoad's Avatar
familytoad familytoad is offline
Br1@n L1ndh0lm3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ridgefield, WA
Posts: 1,311
Default In charge!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
What we need is an official hobby definition of terms such as pre war, vintage, variation, master set, and rookie card. Whoever is in charge of this hobby should clearly define these terms
Well I always assumed that Leon, Frank B & Brian P ( beme) were in charge of this hobby along with you, Al...

What’s your Official “ PreWar Monster Kraken “ number? And how do you define that count?
__________________
Thanks!

Brian L
Familytoad
Ridgefield, WA

See my SGC HOF Collection here:
http://www.sgccard.com/customsetcomposition.aspx?id=463
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-26-2018, 05:58 PM
JollyElm's Avatar
JollyElm JollyElm is online now
D@rrΣn Hu.ghΣs
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,570
Default

(I'm going to take a pseudo-intellectual approach to the topic...)

Everything is always about hindsight. Looking back, it is generally accepted that WWII 'began' in 1939. However, if you took a time machine back to 1939, I highly doubt the events going on were thought of as a full scale war to the vast majority of the world. Since (as I'm sure others have noted) we know how the war escalated, eventually consumed the planet, and finally came to an end in 1945, finding the true beginning is nothing more than a scholarly pursuit. But since the US is the center of the baseball card collecting universe, WWII began for us on December 7, 1941 (FDR/Congress declared it as such the following day). So, unless card sets were produced and distributed in the last month of 1941, you would almost have to say pre-war is anything before 1942.
__________________
Check out my bucket(s). Virtually everything is available for trade:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706
http://s1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee404/JollyElm/
http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/elmjack44/library/

“I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.”
Casey Stengel

Last edited by JollyElm; 05-26-2018 at 05:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-26-2018, 06:06 PM
insidethewrapper's Avatar
insidethewrapper insidethewrapper is offline
Mike
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 688
Default

I thought pre-war was anything before 1861.
__________________
Wanted : Detroit Baseball Cards and Memorabilia ( from 19th Century Detroit Wolverines to Detroit Tigers Ty Cobb to Al Kaline).
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-26-2018, 06:10 PM
JollyElm's Avatar
JollyElm JollyElm is online now
D@rrΣn Hu.ghΣs
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,570
Default

Time to change the name to the "Antebellum" section.
__________________
Check out my bucket(s). Virtually everything is available for trade:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706
http://s1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee404/JollyElm/
http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/elmjack44/library/

“I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.”
Casey Stengel
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-28-2018, 10:34 AM
obcbobd obcbobd is offline
Bob Donaldson
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arlington, MA
Posts: 657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanofjapan View Post
Really it makes no sense to draw a line between pre and post war since they don’t run consecutively. A more accurate periodization I think would be

Pre 1941 = prewar
1942-1947 = interregnum
After 1948 = postwar
You seem to have 1941 and 1948 as orphans :-)
__________________
My wantlist http://www.oldbaseball.com/wantlists...tag=bdonaldson
Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1939 Salutations; Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 0 08-05-2006 09:04 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 PM.


ebay GSB