SMR vs. VCP

[Big Six]

OK...I know most feel that SMR is just another marketing tool of PSA. Personally, I only use it as a small part of my evaluation process in determining how much I will spend on a card. Lately, I'm seeing more and more references to VCP. Is it worth buying a membership? How "off" are prices in SMR for say a 1956 Topps Bob Feller PSA 6 versus what's in VCP? I'm sure the swings for high-dollar cards could be pretty substantial, but what about my Feller example...are we talking $5 variance? Frankly if I'm in the ballpark with regard to how much a slabbed card is worth I'm happy. I just don't want to have it happen that I'm grossly under- or, more importantly, over-paying. Thanks in advance for any feedback/guidance...

[BleedinBlue]

In your example, smr = $75. vcp average = $61.19. A 20% difference. Only 2 of the last 17 sales approach smr value and one of those was a bin where an uneducated buyer likely bought the card thinking smr was a good guage. This is not a particularly bad example. I know on t205s smr is higher by up to 100%

[HRBAKER]

I am just not that familiar with any great number of "buyers" that consider the SMR a legitimate price guide. I know that some sellers do when it works in their favor, mostly. I find VCP to be very useful for cards that are traded frequently where it tracks multiple sales. Not so much on thinly traded issues as there can be several factors that may affect a sales price, primarily the infrequency in which they come to market.

For the amount that I use the service, I consider it to be be fairly priced.

[Leon]

I don't know about SMR but VCP gives the actual sale price. It's not a guide in that respect. Now, that being said we all know to buy the card and not the holder. So, if a T206 in vg condition sold for $80 and another one, same type card and same condition sold for $100, you still need to look at each card to determine if the $100 card presented (aesthetically) better, thereby warranting the higher price.

[RobertGT]

I would say the VCP is the closest thing to an accurate hobby guide we will ever get, since it pulls data from actual eBay sales (and no, I don't work at VCP). Here are a few results from my latest graded football cards auction (all started at $9.99) and the corresponding VCP average. Yes you will see price swings - some in your favor and some not. Good luck! Rob

1981 Topps Joe Montana PSA 7: auction sale price - $65.77 / VCP avg.: $59.65
1979 Topps Earl Campbell PSA 9: $152.50 / $154.51
1959 Topps FB Jon Arnett PSA 9: $61.10/ $69.22
1959 Topps Sam Huff PSA 7: $41 / $40.70
1969 Topps Bob Hayes PSA 8: $20.50 / $17.17
1959 Topps Bobby Laynes PSA 8 $38.10 /$39.51

[jefferyepayne]

I've been tracking auction prices on ebay for specific cards/sets I am interested in for a couple of years now so I have a lot of data. I'm getting tired of doing this myself and so have been looking for a better alternative to use as a baseline guide. I've never found the print price guides to be very good.

I find SMR to be wildly inaccurate and so don't think it is a viable price guide alternative.

VCP appears much more promising and useful. I like their overall approach to determining prices but wish they would broaden their analysis to include other auctions and forums. This would help increase the sample size for scarcer cards and make their $$$ values more accurate. I realize this isn't easy to do in some instances. I agree with others that for cards that are traded frequently, the values are much closer to the market value than other sources.

jeff

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't know about SMR but VCP gives the actual sale price. It's not a guide in that respect. Now, that being said we all know to buy the card and not the holder. So, if a T206 in vg condition sold for $80 and another one, same type card and same condition sold for $100, you still need to look at each card to determine if the $100 card presented (aesthetically) better, thereby warranting the higher price.

"And the Crowd Roared"

[Vegas-guy]

Does VCP keep track of the different back types on T206s or is it just per player/grade?

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Vegas-guy

Does VCP keep track of the different back types on T206s or is it just per player/grade?

Hi Reg,

Back types.

Cheers,
Blair

[BobbyVCP]

Not all but a very good portion:


ACC # Set Name Year Cards
T206 (Red Hindu) White Borders (Red Hindu) 1909 113
T206 (UZIT) White Borders (UZIT) 1909 113
T206 (Drum 350) White Borders (Drum 350) 1909 270
T206 (Cycle 460) White Borders (Cycle 460) 1909 109
T206 (Cycle 350) White Borders (Cycle 350) 1909 217
T206 (Carolina Brights) White Borders (Carolina Brights) 1909 216
T206 (Brown Lenox) White Borders (Brown Lenox) 1909 113
T206 (Brown Hindu) White Borders (Brown Hindu) 1909 193
T206 (Broadleaf 460) White Borders (Broadleaf 460) 1909 109
T206 (Broadleaf 350) White Borders (Broadleaf 350) 1909 216
T206 (Black Lenox) White Borders (Black Lenox) 1909 111
T206 (Factory 42) White Borders (Factory 42) 1909 108
T206 (Ghosts, Miscuts & Oddities) T206 White Borders (Ghosts, Miscuts & Oddities) 1909 525
T206 (AB Frame) White Borders (American Beauty Frame) 1909 315
T206 (AB No Frame) White Borders (American Beauty No Frame) 1909 82
T206 (EPDG) White Borders (EPDG) 1909 471
T206 (Old Mill) White Borders (Old Mill) 1909 509
T206 (Polar Bear) White Borders (Polar Bear) 1909 319
T206 (Sovereign) White Borders (Sovereign) 1909 470
T206 (Tolstoi) White Borders (Tolstoi) 1909 318
T206 (Old Mill Overprint) White Borders (Old Mill Overprint) 1909 0
T206 (Piedmont and Sweet Caporal) White Borders (Piedmont & Sweet Caporal) 1909-11 524

[ScottFandango]

dont forget VCP has BOBBY, a very approachable chap who often frequents the boards.

[DICKTOWLE]

Bobby Binder is the best, you should never have to pay higher, this is the real price in real time why would you want to spend more. I have spent a lot for collections by using this as a guide. It works

[Runscott]

I have subscribed to VCP since November and use it every day. I use it in conjunction with ebay and searches of the major auction houses, to keep track of prices in my own spreadsheets for issues I'm interested in. It works well.

I find SMR to sometimes have weird information; for instance, it lists most of the T205 cards, but leaves some variations out - seems to be almost random. e.g-only one of the Wilhelm cards is listed. For other variations, it lists the same exact price for both variations, when real market price for the two is drastically different.

Regarding VCP, I find it odd that it is missing so much data, and it seems to be almost random. Sometimes ebay information shows up almost immediately - sometimes never. Same for major auction house data - it's easier sometimes to just google a card to check auction house results. You'll find stuff that way that isn't in VCP at all. As a former programmer, I don't think I could write a software program that would yield such weird results. Having said that, VCP still should give you a good enough idea in most cases, to make a purchase decision.

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I have subscribed to VCP since November and use it every day. I use it in conjunction with ebay and searches of the major auction houses, to keep track of prices in my own spreadsheets for issues I'm interested in. It works well.

I find SMR to sometimes have weird information; for instance, it lists most of the T205 cards, but leaves some variations out - seems to be almost random. e.g-only one of the Wilhelm cards is listed. For other variations, it lists the same exact price for both variations, when real market price for the two is drastically different.

Regarding VCP, I find it odd that it is missing so much data, and it seems to be almost random. Sometimes ebay information shows up almost immediately - sometimes never. Same for major auction house data - it's easier sometimes to just google a card to check auction house results. You'll find stuff that way that isn't in VCP at all. As a former programmer, I don't think I could write a software program that would yield such weird results. Having said that, VCP still should give you a good enough idea in most cases, to make a purchase decision.

Thanks Scott...I'm leaning towards getting VCP...seems like the best option out there...

[vintagetoppsguy]

I've had a few issues with VCP - they ommitted a few of my purchases from earlier last year and they list players as HOFers that are NOT HOFers, but overall they're pretty decent.

[BobbyVCP]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I've had a few issues with VCP - they ommitted a few of my purchases from earlier last year and they list players as HOFers that are NOT HOFers, but overall they're pretty decent.

We recently made some changes and you should start seeing most if not all BIN and eBay store sales and other auction houses showing up on VCP. As far as little errors such as HOF not or being notated incorrectly it is an easy fix so just click on the Report a Problem button page located on the bottom right side of every page. We have over 5,000,000 pages in our website and we try our best but we are only human. So if you ever see something wrong email me or click on the report an error and we will get it fixed, fast.

[Exhibitman]

I don't know why anyone would give any credence to a price "guide" that deviates from actual price data the way the SMR does; what is it "guiding" you to, how to pay the wrong price for a card? It is as useless as a heap of rat feces as far as I am concerned.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I don't know why anyone would give any credence to a price "guide" that deviates from actual price data the way the SMR does; what is it "guiding" you to, how to pay the wrong price for a card? It is as useless as a heap of rat feces as far as I am concerned.

You guys aren’t looking at this the right way. SMR actually helps keep prices down. Let me explain. I think we can all agree that the VCP price is lower than the SMR price on most cards. Why is that? Simple, nobody wants to pay book value for a card. Most of us are comfortable paying 70-80% of book value for a card, and most VCP prices are 70-80% of SMR.

Let me give you 3 quick examples. Let’s take a 1962 Topps #5 Koufax, #300 Mays and #320 Aaron, all graded a PSA 6. Each card has a SMR of $100, however the VCP average for those three cards is $71.46, $85.13 and $72.71 respectively.

I guarantee if one (or all) of those cards went up to $200 in the next edition of the SMR, the VCP average would increase as well because people would be willing to pay more if they thought the card was worth more. Likewise, if one (or all) of those cards went down to $75 in the next edition of the SMR, the VCP average would decrease as well as people would pay less if they thought the card was worth less.

In other words, it doesn’t matter what the price says in the SMR because most people don’t want to pay book value for a card. They want to feel like they’re getting a deal. Let’s say for a minute that SMR changed their pricing structure to reflect VCP prices (the price on most cards would go down). Well, the VCP prices would go down shortly thereafter because people wouldn’t feel like they’re getting a deal by paying book value for a card and they would start to pay less.

Anyway, that’s why SMR is necessary. It gives us a starting price and we’re usually willing to pay 70-80% of that price. It doesn’t matter what the SMR price says, VCP average will always be 70-80% of that (on most cards).

Consider it like buying a car. Nobody pays the sticker price for a car. We all know that the dealership is willing to negotiate off that price. We drive out of the dealership feeling good because we feel like we got a deal. Look at it as if SMR is the sticker price and VCP is the driveout price. Sure, the dealerhsip could put their lowest price and the windshield, but then you would feel like you were paying sticker and wouldn't feel like you got a deal.

[rdixon1208]

Great take David. One that I've never heard before. I'm curious though....how does this hold up with prewar cards? I've never opened a SMR.

Bye the way: I was looking for you at the Tristar show Saturday. I don't know if you made it but it was a decent show. Quite a lot of pre-war.

[BobbyVCP]

Nice theory but likewise I can give you just as many examples where SMR is way lower then the actual price of VCP. All the prices for the most part are driven by the registry people, I constantly see high grade commons in 9 or 10 sell for huge amounts, then the next one comes out and you lose a bidder because one has it so the price drops. Then a third one comes to the market and again now 2 registry guys are out so the price drops even more.

[majordanby]

does anyone know how PSA comes up with their SMR values?

[smtjoy]

I see what your saying David and maybe SMR is High on Topps and Bowman cards but on most cards I collect- Exhibits, M101, E's it is quite low and I almost always pay over 100% even for VG cards. Hell on 1933 exhibits I will buy as many as you can find at 110+% of SMR.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

I see what your saying David and maybe SMR is High on Topps and Bowman cards but on most cards I collect- Exhibits, M101, E's it is quite low and I almost always pay over 100% even for VG cards. Hell on 1933 exhibits I will buy as many as you can find at 110+% of SMR.

SMR is also way low on many T207s, M116s, and pretty much all pre-war hockey (especially grades between 2-4).

IMO the SMR plays very little part in the actual prices paid for pre-war cards. Walking around the National in 2011 for several days and talking with many pre-war dealers and collectors, I don't recall a single person looking at or referring to the SMR (despite the fact that they gave a free copy to pretty much everyone in the room).

Cheers,
Blair

[HRBAKER]

David,
Your theory assumes that a significant number of people buying cards look at the SMR for pricing information. Do you believe that?

Jeff

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

David,
Your theory assumes that a significant number of people buying cards look at the SMR for pricing information. Do you believe that?

Jeff

Absolutely. There are plenty of threads (on this and many other boards) comparing SMR to VCP. If people weren't looking at the SMR, these threads wouldn't exist because people wouldn't care.

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Absolutely. There are plenty of threads (on this and many other boards) comparing SMR to VCP. If people weren't looking at the SMR, these threads wouldn't exist because people wouldn't care.

There are also a number of eBay listings that include SMR...I'm thinking Probstein off the top of my head.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

SMR is also way low on many T207s, M116s, and pretty much all pre-war hockey (especially grades between 2-4).

I did some quick research on the T207 and M116s to prove my theory. I took the first three HOFers in the T207 set (Bender, Bresnahan and Carey) and the last three HOFers in the M116 set (Wallace, Willis and Young - I skipped Walsh because there was no pricing data) and looked at the SMR vs. VCP price for each of those cards in a PSA 5.

T207 (all common backs)
Bender - SMR $430 vs. VCP $385.99
Bresnahan - SMR $430 vs. VCP $223.07
Carey - SMR $500 vs. VCP $450

M116 (blue backs)
Wallace - SMR $265 vs. VCP $208.32
Willis - SMR $265 vs. VCP $277
Young - $900 vs. VCP $822

As you can see, only 1 card (M116 Willis) had a higher VCP than SMR (and it was less than 5%). I tried to be as fair as I could in my 15 minutes of research. I'm sure someone can give other examples of cards in these sets (or other sets) where the VCP is higher than the SMR, but that holds true of any set/any year. I still stand behind my original statement that for the most part, VCP is lower than SMR (on most cards).

[HRBAKER]

Is there no issue with a leading grading company that sells advertising to major auction houses printing/issuing a pricing guide. Are we supposed to believe that this information can be taken legitimately. To me that's like the Frito-Lay Co. printing the Physician's Desk reference.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I did some quick research on the T207 and M116s to prove my theory. I took the first three HOFers in the T207 set (Bender, Bresnahan and Carey) and the last three HOFers in the M116 set (Wallace, Willis and Young - I skipped Walsh because there was no pricing data) and looked at the SMR vs. VCP price for each of those cards in a PSA 5.

T207 (all common backs)
Bender - SMR $430 vs. VCP $385.99
Bresnahan - SMR $430 vs. VCP $223.07
Carey - SMR $500 vs. VCP $450

M116 (blue backs)
Wallace - SMR $265 vs. VCP $208.32
Willis - SMR $265 vs. VCP $277
Young - $900 vs. VCP $822

As you can see, only 1 card (M116 Willis) had a higher VCP than SMR (and it was less than 5%). I tried to be as fair as I could in my 15 minutes of research. I'm sure someone can give other examples of cards in these sets (or other sets) where the VCP is higher than the SMR, but that holds true of any set/any year. I still stand behind my original statement that for the most part, VCP is lower than SMR (on most cards).

Hello David,

The examples you chose for T207 and M116 are not really good ones for those sets. Those sets are not so much about the HOFers - they are much more about multiple levels of scarcity and even rarity in terms of many subjects. Although you chose HOFers, those cards are "common" in those sets.

Where SMR utterly falls down in a laughable way is failing to recognize the scarce/rare cards in these sets. Their across-the-board broad brush price setting had nothing to do with what the market is paying.

I don't have time to cite hundreds of examples, but there are literally hundreds.

Want one that I just looked at that made me laugh?

SMR says T207 Mike Donlin in a 1 is $22. It says that card in a 3 is $55. Hahahaha!

Wanna know the real prices people are paying (ie. the real value) found by looking at VCP? Try over $1,000 for a 1 and almost $3,000 in a 3.

Wonder if those buyers knew they were paying 50 TIMES SMR?

There are tons of examples similar to this.

Cheers,
Blair

[BobbyVCP]

I just checked out SMR for the very first time online now since it is free. And wow your right they really missed the boat on the T207 Donlin, bet now the PSA5.5 in Clean Sweep is really going to jump up in price.

[ls7plus]

Blair's comment was excellent. PSA's philosophy with regard to extremely rare cards is to be very conservative in their prices. It was also good to hear from Bobby re some of what he's got planned, as I find VCP a very informative tool, although just one in the tool box, rather than the be-all and end all. As I've stated before, I believe ebay continues to reflect largely wholesale prices, and not much more, attracting a much smaller percentage of collectors who might have a real interest in a truly significant item, than do the major auction houses. It's always been the case that the quicker you want to sell, the less you usually get. The venue you choose for your sale simply reflects what your needs are.

Best regards always,

Larry

[Exhibitman]

I like the analogy David but it is flawed. The SMR is more like the Kelly Blue Book in that it says what the cars are supposedly worth. A sticker is the dealer ask price--you don't expect that to be an accurate reflection of value.

I simply do not see the efficacy of a price guide that is wrong.

But it is definitely worth what they are charging for it now.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Absolutely. There are plenty of threads (on this and many other boards) comparing SMR to VCP. If people weren't looking at the SMR, these threads wouldn't exist because people wouldn't care.

Sure David some people look at SMR and they even start threads comparing the two. That doesn't mean a significant number in the overall scheme of things regard it as a "legitimate" pricing tool. I'm not convinced there are.

[vintagetoppsguy]

The fact is that VCP is lower than SMR on most cards. Obviously people can give examples of data that conflict my statement, but I am not talking about the 1% of cards that actually sell above SMR. My theory is based on the other 99% of cards that sell below SMR.

SMR was out years before VCP came into existence. And for years people were paying less than SMR with no other pricing data available. Why? My theory is that people just don't want to pay book (SMR) value for cards.

If SMR goes up or down in price, I believe that VCP will go up or down in relation to that, but the VCP will never equal SMR because nobody wants to pay book prices for a card.

If anybody else has a theory why VCP prices are lower than SMR prices I would love to hear it. Maybe it's a combination of factors, but I haven't heard any other theories.

Edited to add: Jeff, I'm not saying it's a legitimate pricing tool. It's not. It just gives us a price point from where we can negotiate down. Again, I use my new car sticker price as an example. Nobody pays that. Sure there are some rare cars that actually sell for more than the sticker, just like there are cards that sell from more than SMR. I'm not talking about those though. Who here has ever paid sticker price for a new car? Probably nobody. Because we know that's just a starting price point in which the dealer is willing to come down. Same thing with SMR.

[barrysloate]

VCP is not offering any opinions on what they think the market should be; they are merely reporting sales that have already transpired.

SMR, on the other hand, is estimating what they think the market should be. My guess is that they are lobbied by dealers and may not be entirely objective. All guides that estimate prices have a certain obligation to the people who support them, or they will lose those advertising dollars to a competitor. That's why I don't consider SMR to be legitimate price guide. Of course, there are some cases where they may in fact be pretty close to market, as that will happen.

[HRBAKER]

David,

You're saying that on the 99% actual prices are less bc people use the SMR and always want to pay less than the guide. I'm saying that the same prices are lower most likey bc not many people even use SMR bc it's really not taken seriously by very many people. The fact that the SMR prices are higher is just reflective of how out of touch it might if it were in fact used and for the very reasons Barry mentions above IMO. We are in agreement that it is not a legitimate pricing tool. It's an advertising slick masquerading as a price guide.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

David,

You're saying that on the 99% actual prices are less bc people use the SMR and always want to pay less than the guide. I'm saying that the same prices are lower most likey bc not many people even use SMR bc it's really not taken seriously by very many people. The fact that the SMR prices are higher is just reflective of how out of touch it might if it were in fact used and for the very reasons Barry mentions above IMO. We are in agreement that it is not a legitimate pricing tool. It's an advertising slick masquerading as a price guide.

Hello, Jeff. If SMR is a advertising slick masquerading as a price guide and not to be taken seriously, then why do the advertisers keep advertising in it? In other words, if it weren't being read by many, many folks, why would the advertisers keep wasting their money if they weren't getting any bang for their buck? The advertisers must see some value in spending their advertising dollars with SMR (unless SMR offers FREE ad spaces that I don't know about).

Nobody has yet to offer a theory as to why VCP is 99% lower than SMR on their prices. Again, SMR was out years before VCP, so people were paying less than book for years before there was anything else to compare to.

[barrysloate]

To continue Jeff's point, SMR has the same access to pricing as any of us. There is no reason for their prices to be inaccurate unless the people responsible are lazy or careless, and I doubt they are either of these. But there is obviously some reason why certain prices are not even remotely attuned to the market.

I know that when business is bad, dealers want to see very high catalog prices so that they can make some sales. And when the market is hot it's tough to buy, so lower prices may work better for them. I've always found, in any collectibles field, that price guides can't be trusted to provide accurate information.

The beauty of what VCP does is it has no opinion whatsoever about the market. If a card sells for $135.22, that's the price it will post. It doesn't matter if they feel it might be too high or too low. It will be up to the user of VCP to make that determination.

[HRBAKER]

Hi David,
Good question. I have to assume that circulation numbers for the SMR are large enough for most of them to see it as cost effective. I have no doubt that many people pick up and look at and read a SMR. I am not sure however how many of those folks give the pricing any creedence at all (i.e., see it as a starting point to negotiate down from).

And David, I could be wrong.

I also think that Barry hit the nail on the head for the differences in the prices btw the two, one is based of verifiable results and the other on ?????
I see it like this; VCP is like the stock page in the WSJ and the SMR is more like Pravda.

[barrysloate]

Doesn't everybody who becomes a member of PSA, and I believe that is a requirement to have cards graded by them, automatically get a subscription to SMR? As such, it has a very wide readership. It would make perfect sense for dealers and auction houses to advertise there, especially those that typically handle a lot of PSA graded cards. There are also some articles, albeit not always that interesting, as well as the price guide. The fact that it is not accurate, well that's another story. But I bet a ton of collectors read it, thus making it a great place to advertise.

And David, I think you have one thing backwards: I wouldn't be asking why VCP prices are lower than SMR's, but why SMR's are higher than VCP's. VCP has no control over what they publish. If a thousand dollar card sells for fifty bucks, that's what they are obligated to publish. It's SMR that makes the determination regarding what price to post.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Sure David some people look at SMR and they even start threads comparing the two. That doesn't mean a significant number in the overall scheme of things regard it as a "legitimate" pricing tool. I'm not convinced there are.

+1

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

SMR was out years before VCP came into existence. And for years people were paying less than SMR with no other pricing data available. Why? My theory is that people just don't want to pay book (SMR) value for cards.

...

If anybody else has a theory why VCP prices are lower than SMR prices I would love to hear it. Maybe it's a combination of factors, but I haven't heard any other theories.

I think a lot of people were ignoring SMR - I know I was. I look at VCP, ebay results, and major auction house results. So my thought is that VCP is lower than SMR because VCP reflect reality. When I see a seller mention SMR price to justify his huge mark-up over reality, I scratch my head and think, "so what?".

[BobbyVCP]

I picked a set that should appeal to vintagetoppsguy and that is the 1955 Topps all in PSA 8 to compare SMR to VCP.

.............PSA ......................... VCP
1 Dusty Rhodes 300 ................ 235.81
2 Ted Williams 2000 ................ 1951.38
3 Art Fowler 650 ................ 634.82
4 Al Kaline 400 ................ 360.06
5 Jim Gilliam 325 ................ 321.66
6 Stan Hack Manager 110 ................ 87.11
7 Jim Hegan 950 ................ 1016.66
8 Hal Smith 550 ................ 795
9 Bob Miller 80 ................ 52.37
10 Bob Keegan 815 ................ 745
11 Ferris Fain 80 ................ 226
12 Jake Thies 80 ................ 49
13 Fred Marsh 80 ................ 46.46
14 Jim Finigan 80 ................ 117.63
15 Jim Pendleton 80 ................ 52.49
16 Roy Sievers 80 ................ 423.93
17 Bobby Hofman 80 ................ 47.25
18 Russ Kemmerer 80 ................ 217.75
19 Billy Herman 365 ................ 383.36
20 Andy Carey 700 ................ 925
21 Alex Grammas 80 ................ 56
22 Bill Skowron 165 ................ 118
23 Jack Parks 475 ................ 540.5
24 Hal Newhouser (HOF) 900 ................ 1022.5
25 Johnny Podres 1500 ................ 1610
26 Dick Groat 875 ................ 1774.29
27 Billy Gardener 80 ................ 51.99
28 Ernie Banks 515 ................ 589.42
29 Herman Wehmeier 80 ................ 133.49
30 Vic Power 250 ................ 278.9
31 Warren Spahn 375 ................ 423.92
32 Ed McGhee 225 ................ 195.08
33 Tom Qualters 325 ................ 283.19
34 Wayne Terwilliger 225 ................ 250.7
35 Dave Jolly 80 ................ 49.87
36 Leo Kiely 225 ................ 211.54
37 Joe Cunningham 80 ................ 57.81
38 Bob Turley 110 ................ 72.78
39 Bill Glynn 80 ................ 282.83
40 Don Hoak 200 ................ 307.26
41 Chuck Stobbs 80 ................ 54.27
42 Windy McCall 80 ................ 52.7
43 Harvey Haddix 100 ................ 59.86
44 Corky Valentine 80 ................ 51.24
45 Hank Sauer 100 ................ 60.19
46 Ted Kazanski 80 ................ 51.53
47 Hank Aaron 985 ................ 977.38
48 Bob Kennedy 80 ................ 49.43
49 J. W. Porter 325 ................ 310.07
50 Jackie Robinson 875 ................ 907.57
51 Jim Hughes 80 ................ 64.17
52 Bill Tremel 80 ................ 54.21
53 Bill Taylor 80 ................ 53.28
54 Lou Limmer 80 ................ 67.37
55 Rip Repulski 80 ................ 61.65
56 Ray Jablonski 80 ................ 53.62
57 Billy O'Dell 315 ................ 318
58 Jim Rivera 375 ................ 406.33
59 Gair Allie 80 ................ 73.36
60 Dean Stone 80 ................ 51.57
61 Spook Jacobs 80 ................ 77.52
62 Thornton Kipper 80 ................ 87.87
63 Joe Collins 550 ................ 974
64 Gus Triandos 185 ................ 206.75
65 Ray Boone 100 ................ 74.59
66 Ron Jackson 80 ................ 212
67 Wally Moon 100 ................ 55.02
68 Jim Davis 80 ................ 44.42
69 Ed Bailey 80 ................ 49.99
70 Al Rosen 200 ................ 198
71 Ruben Gomez 80 ................ 50.26
72 Karl Olson 80 ................ 82.95
73 Jack Shepard 80 ................ 47.08
74 Bob Borkowski 80 ................ 42.08
75 Sandy Amoros 165 ................ 147.16
76 Howie Pollett 80 ................ 51.44
77 Arnold Portocarrero 275 ................ 308
78 Gordon Jones 225 ................ 342.92
79 Danny Schell 80 ................ 46.92
80 Bob Grim (R) 325 ................ 325
81 Gene Conley 80 ................ 237.92
82 Chuck Harmon 80 ................ 149.26
83 Tom Brewer 80 ................ 89.5
84 Camilo Pascual 185 ................ 170.99
85 Don Mossi 100 ................ 61.47
86 Bill Wilson 80 ................ 51.95
87 Frank House 80 ................ 55.19
88 Bob Skinner 100 ................ 89.5
89 Joe Frazier 225 ................ 330.87
90 Karl Spooner 80 ................ 71.23
91 Milt Bolling 80 ................ 68.65
92 Don Zimmer 550 ................ 542.33
93 Steve Bilko 80 ................ 51.41
94 Reno Bertoia 80 ................ 72.75
95 Preston Ward 80 ................ 59
96 Charlie Bishop 80 ................ 54.99
97 Carlos Paula 80 ................ 45.08
98 Johnny Riddle 80 ................ 46.05
99 Frank Leja 80 ................ 47.42
100 Monte Irvin 1425 ................ 1407.77
101 Johnny Gray 200 ................ 207.09
102 Wally Westlake 80 ................ 45.49
103 Charlie White 80 ................ 49.66
104 Jack Harshman 80 ................ 47.52
105 Chuck Diering 80 ................ 70
106 Frank Sullivan 375 ................ 371.48
107 Curt Roberts 80 ................ 59.66
108 Rube Walker 80 ................ 73.83
109 Ed Lopat 385 ................ 468.19
110 Gus Zernial 80 ................ 70.99
111 Bob Milliken 80 ................ 67.12
112 Nelson King 80 ................ 47.08
113 Harry Brecheen 80 ................ 49.62
114 Lou Ortiz 80 ................ 51.5
115 Ellis Kinder 80 ................ 65.34
116 Tom Hurd 80 ................ 49.66
117 Mel Roach 80 ................ 42.6
118 Bob Purkey 80 ................ 52.73
119 Bob Lennon 80 ................ 65.5
120 Ted Kluszewski 220 ................ 149.34
121 Bill Renna 80 ................ 59.17
122 Carl Sawatski 80 ................ 51.74
123 Sandy Koufax 2500 ................ 2522.07
124 Harmon Killebrew 715 ................ 812.77
125 Ken Boyer (R) 265 ................ 269.52
126 Dick Hall 80 ................ 56.7
127 Dale Long (R) 100 ................ 63.49
128 Ted Lepcio 80 ................ 42.68
129 Elvin Tappe 80 ................ 45.55
130 Mayo Smith 80 ................ 36.09
131 Grady Hatton 80 ................ 48.16
132 Bob Trice 80 ................ 58.02
133 Dave Hoskins 80 ................ 63.75
134 Joe Jay 80 ................ 47.51
135 Johnny O'Brien 80 ................ 56.01
136 Bunky Stewart 80 ................ 53.91
137 Harry Elliott 80 ................ 91.96
138 Ray Herbert 80 ................ 50.52
139 Steve Kraly 80 ................ 62.03
140 Mel Parnell 80 ................ 48.13
141 Tom Wright 80 ................ 42
142 Jerry Lynch 80 ................ 49.36
143 Dick Schofield 80 ................ 66.55
144 Joe Amalfitano 80 ................ 55.76
145 Elmer Valo 80 ................ 78.96
146 Dick Donovan 80 ................ 55
147 Laurin Pepper 80 ................ 53.68
148 Hal Brown 80 ................ 58.47
149 Ray Crone 80 ................ 52.67
150 Mike Higgins 80 ................ 55.87
151 Red Kress 95 ................ 92.98
152 Harry Agganis (R) 550 ................ 491.67
153 Bud Podbielan 95 ................ 53.08
154 Willie Miranda 95 ................ 78.38
155 Eddie Mathews (HOF) 385 ................ 350.39
156 Joe Black 400 ................ 384
157 Bob Miller 95 ................ 69.5
158 Tom Carroll 150 ................ 153.75
159 Johnny Schmitz 95 ................ 68
160 Ray Narleski 95 ................ 99.51
161 Chuck Tanner (R) 220 ................ 181.38
162 Joe Coleman 150 ................ 113.39
163 Faye Throneberry 150 ................ 72.25
164 Roberto Clemente (R) (HOF) 5750 ................ 5421.45
165 Don Johnson 150 ................ 132.5
166 Hank Bauer 265 ................ 265.7
167 Tom Casagrande 150 ................ 241.26
168 Duane Pillette 150 ................ 122.25
169 Bob Oldis 150 ................ 119.98
170 Jim Pearce 150 ................ 78.44
171 Dick Brodowski 150 ................ 116.66
172 Frank Baumholtz 150 ................ 82.49
173 Bob Kline 150 ................ 97.32
174 Rudy Minarcin 150 ................ 91.6
176 Norm Zauchin 495 ................ 615
177 Jim Robertson 150 ................ 122.5
178 Bobby Adams 150 ................ 204.16
179 Jim Bolger 275 ................ 393.67
180 Clem Labine 325 ................ 332.58
181 Roy McMillan 150 ................ 163.85
182 Humberto Robinson 150 ................ 199
183 Tony Jacobs 615 ................ 582
184 Harry Perkowski 150 ................ 84.24
185 Don Ferrarese 150 ................ 88.17
187 Gil Hodges 385 ................ 371.97
188 Charlie Silvera 150 ................ 101.93
189 Phil Rizzuto (HOF) 465 ................ 423.42
190 Gene Woodling 235 ................ 238.71
191 Eddie Stanky Manager 235 ................ 164.16
192 Jim Delsing 465 ................ 510.27
193 Johnny Sain 285 ................ 176.66
194 Willie Mays 1300 ................ 1335.25
195 Ed Roebuck 875 ................ 816.48
196 Gale Wade 150 ................ 186.26
197 Al Smith 415 ................ 799.8
198 Yogi Berra 850 ................ 845.15
199 Bert Hamric 150 ................ 162.5
200 Jackie Jensen 220 ................ 154.51
201 Sherman Lollar 615 ................ 635.54
202 Jim Owens 450 ................ 637.34
204 Frank Smith 375 ................ 356
205 Gene Freese (R) 910 ................ 834.89
206 Pete Daley 435 ................ 618.8
207 Bill Consolo 650 ................ 907.97
208 Ray Moore 310 ................ 271
210 Duke Snider (HOF) 2250 ................ 2156.55
................
TOTAL 58400 ................ 59584.67

The left is SMR and Right is VCP. So if 99% of the time SMR is higher then VCP why is it VCP has a higher value for the whole set versus SMR? And in the set of 206 cards SMR is higher then VCP on 146 cards. The main reason for this is there blanket $80 value for the common cards that in most cases are only worth closer to $50. You can also see for yourself that they really missed the boat on a lot of the tougher common cards in the set.

So his theory in my book is not even close to reality.

[wonkaticket]

Bobby do you not pull auction prices? I looked thru your site and it seemed you were missing some bigger auction items almost as if they never went off?

Curious that's all.

John

[toppcat]

I find VCP to be quite useful and it has paid for itself every year I have had it and then some. It's not perfect but it's got a ton of information and also a lot of images. I use it for any number of purposes, not just buying and selling but if you use the site on a regular basis you will save money on your purchases.

[smotan_02]

I wish VCP had an iPhone app for when I visit shows. I love the info, just too hard to search the main site on my phone.

[BobbyVCP]

Originally Posted by smotan_02

I wish VCP had an iPhone app for when I visit shows. I love the info, just too hard to search the main site on my phone.

We have been working on one since last December and just working out the bugs now. Hope to have it live soon.

[smotan_02]

Originally Posted by bobbyvcp

we have been working on one since last december and just working out the bugs now. Hope to have it live soon.

perfect!!!

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

I just checked out SMR for the very first time online now since it is free. And wow your right they really missed the boat on the T207 Donlin, bet now the PSA5.5 in Clean Sweep is really going to jump up in price.

I keep coming back to "if it's free, how good is it then?"

[E93]

I am a big fan of VCP. It has been an incredibly valuable resource for me as both a buyer and occasional seller.
JimB