A Chicle a day through the end of May

[jefferyepayne]

Frankbmd posted some nice Chicle's today that have inspired me to start a new thread. Starting tomorrow, there are 36 days until the end of May, exactly the number of cards in the 1935 National Chicle football set. I'll post images of my Chicle's in order, one each day, starting tomorrow with card #1. I'm hoping you all will do that same as I'd love to see every card in raw, PSA, and SGC form. Feel free to mix in Chicle Premiums as well to keep it interesting.

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Card #1 in the Chicle set is Dutch Clark. Dutch is a charter member of both the College Football Hall of Fame and the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Check out this link for more info on Dutch: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Clark

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Here is a link to a story on the last successful drop kick in the NFL.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2277308

jeff

[vintagetopps]

I like the backs also. Thanks Tom

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by vintagetopps

I like the backs also. Thanks Tom

Me too. Some of the football techniques they describe are really dated so its interesting to learn how much the game has changed. Also, check out the weight of the players. They are mostly all quite light. Bronko will be one of the exceptions.

jeff

[vintagetopps]

The article was really interesting also. Looking forward to card #2

[jefferyepayne]

Card #2 in the Chicle set is Bo Molenda. Bo has the distinction of playing professionally in three sports: football, basketball, baseball. Check out this link for more info on Bo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Molenda.

Sorry for the fuzzy scans. My scanner doesn't like graded cards much. I plan to fix this soon.

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jeff

[smotan_02]

Great cards, if you figure out how to fix the scanner please post that as well

[jefferyepayne]

From reading other threads, it sound like scanners with CCD technology are much better at reducing the glare caused by graded card cases. I'm going to look into getting one of these. It sound like they run between $100 - $200. Cannon is one brand recommended by N54 members.

I'll edit and repost the Bo Molenda scans once I track one of these down next week. Been planning to get a "real" scanner for a while now so now I have a good excuse.

jeff

Originally Posted by smotan_02

Great cards, if you figure out how to fix the scanner please post that as well

[vintagetopps]

This guy looks as if he could do it all. 4 NFL Championships!

[jefferyepayne]

Card #3 in the Chicle set is George Kenneally. George is the first player in the set to not use his nickname on his card. His friends called him Gigi. Check out this link for more info on George: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Kenneally. He is the first player in the set to have also been an owner of an NFL franchise, purchasing the Pottsville Maroons when they became insolvent. Unfortunately, the team did not survive the 1929 stock market crash.

Someone PLEASE post a better version of this card. This is my poorest card in the set.

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jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Card #4 in the Chicle set is Ed Matesic. Ed played for the Eagles and the "Pittsburgh Football Pirates" as Chris Berman might have called them if they hadn't changed their name to the Steelers later. Here is a little bit of info on Ed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Matesic

Check out the discussion on the proper way to throw a forward pass on the back.

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jeff

[vintagetopps]

Looks like you got a new scanner!

[jefferyepayne]

I didn't get the new scanner yet. Raw cards look fine with pretty much any scanner ... it's the graded cards that cause trouble.

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Card #5 in the Chicle set is Glenn Presnell. Glenn holds a number of distinctions in the annals of NFL football history. He played for the inaugural Detroit Lions team in 1934 and help lead them to the NFL championship in 1935. The owner of the Lions let Glenn choose the colors for the team's uniforms and so we owe him for the blue and silver the Lions still use today. He led the league in total yardage in 1933 and set a new NFL scoring record that year. He also held the record for longest field goal (54 yards) for nearly 20 years.

Check out this link for more info on Glenn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Presnell

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jeff

[vintagetopps]

"Mr. Richards, the owner, the day I was up there and signed my contract, he said: 'There's a table out there in the next office covered with uniforms. Why don't you pick out the colors you like?' I went out. My wife was with me. We saw this Honolulu blue and silver and we fell in love with it."

[jefferyepayne]

Card #6 in the Chicle set is Pug Rentner. Pug is in the College Football Hall of Fame and was a College All-American at Northwestern. He scored the Boston Redskins only points in their 1936 NFL Championship loss to the Green Bay Packers (21-6). This championship game was supposed to be played in Boston but the owner of the Redskins, who had previously announced he was moving the team to Washington, moved the game to New York.

Check out this link for more info on Pug: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pug_Rentner

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jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Card #7 in the Chicle set is Ken Strong. Ken was a 2x All-American at NYU and a 5x All-Pro selection. He is the first player in the Chicle set to have played in both the NFL and the second instantiation of the AFL. Ken was voted to the 1930's All Decade Team and the New York Giants retired his number. He was the first known player in NFL history to score on a fair catch kick, an obscure NFL rule that is still in existence. Only 5 players in NFL history have made a fair catch kick. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_catch_kick for more information.

Check out this link for more info on Ken: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Strong

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jeff

[Leon]

I was speaking with a brand new board member yesterday. He says his main thing is football. Maybe there will be more talk of it in the future on this board. The cards are certainly neat looking. I personally didn't play football growing up as I was generally too small. I played a lot of baseball. Great looking cards posted Jeff....

[jefferyepayne]

Card #8 in the Chicle set is Jim Zyntell. Jim is a Holy Cross graduate and has the distinction to being in both the Holy Cross Football Hall of Fame and Holy Cross Track Hall of Fame. Alphabetically, he is the last person in the list of former NFL players.

Check out this link for more info on Jim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Zyntell

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jeff

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Jeffrey- The mention of the "Fair Catch Kick" on the Ken Strong card brought back some fun memories.

About 8 or 9 years ago I was broadcasting a local high game on local cable and right before half the rule was put into use. A visiting player called a fair catch at mid-field and theie coach declared the free kick option.

I was aware of the rule but was not aware that an unlimited run-up to the ball is allowed. The ball was placed on a kickoff tee and a 270 lb. lineman took about a ten yard run-up to the ball and kicked it through.

The points were the deciding margin at game's end. Fun stuff.

By the way NFL Ref Walt Coleman is our guest speaker at our annual Boys & Girls Club fund raiser next Tuesday night. I am sure he will address the "Tuck Rule" and his relationship with the Raider organization.

[smotan_02]

Jeffrey
Great thread, keep them coming!

[jefferyepayne]

NFL kickers are so good at drilling kickoffs through the uprights now that I'm surprised more situations to try a fair catch kick haven't occurred in the NFL recently. Probably because most teams forced to punt in a close game are going to punt it out of bounds. On a last second kickoff, teams usually squib it as well.

My understanding is that a fair catch kick is a legitimate field goal attempt and if someone made one from farther than 64 yards it would be considered the longest field goal in history.

jeff

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

Jeffrey- The mention of the "Fair Catch Kick" on the Ken Strong card brought back some fun memories.

About 8 or 9 years ago I was broadcasting a local high game on local cable and right before half the rule was put into use. A visiting player called a fair catch at mid-field and theie coach declared the free kick option.

I was aware of the rule but was not aware that an unlimited run-up to the ball is allowed. The ball was placed on a kickoff tee and a 270 lb. lineman took about a ten yard run-up to the ball and kicked it through.

The points were the deciding margin at game's end. Fun stuff.

[jefferyepayne]

Thanks. I needed a little positive feedback ... I was starting to wonder whether I was just talking to myself!

jeff

Originally Posted by smotan_02

Jeffrey
Great thread, keep them coming!

[smotan_02]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Thanks. I needed a little positive feedback ... I was starting to wonder whether I was just talking to myself!

jeff

Not at all, I check them everyday and admire the cards. I think a '55 AA thread should be next, at least I can contribute to that one.

[jefferyepayne]

That would be awesome. I'd love to see them. I have the complete set but it's mostly junk. I bought the set cheap a while back and haven't started working on upgrading it yet so I won't be able to contribute much to the thread. Maybe you'll motivate me to get working on it.

jeff

Originally Posted by smotan_02

Not at all, I check them everyday and admire the cards. I think a '55 AA thread should be next, at least I can contribute to that one.

[vintagetopps]

Keep them coming. Missed the past few days, but caught today. Thanks Again!

[jefferyepayne]

Card #9 in the Chicle set is Knute Rockne. Known for being one of the all-time great college coaches, Knute was a great player as well, winning All-American honors in 1913 at Notre Dame where he helped popularize the forward pass as a speedy end. More information on Knute can be found here: http://www.knuterockne.com/

Knute is the only non-NFL person in the 1935 National Chicle set, making may wonder whether the set was originally going to include college players as well. Note that the back of each card says it is "One of 240 football players" and only 36 cards were produced. Due to the size of the NFL in the mid 1930's it would have been nearly impossible to produce a 240 card set that included only NFL players.

Another theory is that National Chicle wanted kids to think there were more cards in the set to keep them purchasing the cards. This strategy was definitely employed in the 1930's (see discussions of the 1933 Goudey Nap Lajoie for more details). This seems unlikely due to the large difference between the number of cards produced vs. the number of cards the backs say are in the set.

Since the National Chicle Gum Company went bankrupt in 1937, it is likely that they had originally planned a set of 240 but ultimately could not afford to produce the complete set before running into financial problems.

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You will note that the front and back scans of this card look different. It IS the same card. I'm just playing around with my scanner to make the images look better.

jeff

[smotan_02]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Knute was a great player as well, winning All-American honors in 1913 at Notre Dame where he helped popularize the forward pass as a speedy end. More information on Knute can be found here: http://www.knuterockne.com/

Great card and a great player coach. Knute Rockne did revolutionize the use of the forward pass in 1913, in fact he did it against Army at West Point. As I walked to work the other day I snapped this picture. Compare it to the one below it.

Although my team is on the losing side of this rivalry, I love the history involved with it.

[jefferyepayne]

Wow. That is an incredible shot. I assume the building in the Rockne picture is the one on the right in your photo. Hallowed ground.

jeff

Originally Posted by smotan_02

Great card and a great player coach. Knute Rockne did revolutionize the use of the forward pass in 1913, in fact he did it against Army at West Point. As I walked to work the other day I snapped this picture. Compare it to the one below it.

Although my team is on the losing side of this rivalry, I love the history involved with it.

[jefferyepayne]

Card #10 in the Chicle set is Cliff Battles. Cliff was an excellent runner who accumulated all sorts of honors during his career:

* First small college player to be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame. He was an All-American at West Virginia Wesleyan College where he earned 15 letters in five sports (football, baseball, basketball, track, tennis).

* Phi Beta Kappa scholar in college while also playing semi-pro football on the side under the assumed name "Jones".

* First NFL running back to gain more than 200 yards in a game, rushing for 215 yards in 1933 for the Redskins against the Giants.

* Led NFL in rushing as a rookie and joined forces with Sammy Baugh to lead the Redskins to their first NFL title in 1937.

Due to a contract dispute with the owner of the Redskins, Battles retired after only 6 years in the NFL. He was inducted into the Pro Football HOF in 1968.

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jeff

[smotan_02]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Wow. That is an incredible shot. I assume the building in the Rockne picture is the one on the right in your photo. Hallowed ground.

jeff

I took the picture to line up directly with the Rockne shot. It's the building in the center background called Cullum Hall. If you see the mountains in the background and where it hits the building you can see how they line up.

[vintagetopps]

Nice Card!

[jefferyepayne]

Card #11 in the Chicle set is Turk Edwards. Turk was considered a giant in his day, listed at 6' 2" and between 250 - 260lbs. After becoming an All-American at Washington State, Albert Glen "Turk" Edwards had offers from three teams in the NFL and chose the Boston Redskins as they were the highest bidder. He played for the Redskins for 9 seasons and continued on with them for 8 more as first an assistant coach and then their head coach.

Turk's career ended in a bizarre manner as he hurt his knee during a coin toss. His cleat stuck in the ground as he turned to leave and it further damaged an already injured knee.

Turk was selected as an All-Pro by at least one major media outlet in each of his first 8 years in the league.

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jeff

[smotan_02]

I never knew that about his knee. What a rough way to go out. Great looking card, even with his weird squat pose.

[jefferyepayne]

I guess the bull rush wasn't big back then ...

Originally Posted by smotan_02

I never knew that about his knee. What a rough way to go out. Great looking card, even with his weird squat pose.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

What a story about his knee! Well at least it wasn't a concussion!

[vintagetopps]

Now I'm wanting to collect this set & the 55's. Keep em coming!

[jefferyepayne]

Card #12 in the Chicle set is Tom Hupke. Tom played for the Detroit Lions and Cleveland Rams during his NFL career. He was on the Lions team that won the 1935 NFL Championship. More info on his playing career is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hupke

Tom was a 2x All-American guard at Alabama but was critically injured in a car crash that claimed the life of one of his passengers, while he and others were heading home from school for Christmas in Dec '32. For a while they thought he might lose his left arm due to crash injuries but he recovered. He subsequently had surgery on his arm to correct nerve damage but it is unclear how much this impacted the rest of his playing career. I noticed in his picture that he has one hand open and one closed. Not sure if this is just a pose or if he had on-going arm issues that impacted his ability to use one of his arms.

Tom died young at 48 in 1959 after an extended illness.

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jeff

[smotan_02]

I wonder if the artist used press photos as the guide for the card or if they had a headshot and "imagined" the rest (stance, body, etc). If they used press photos then I could see how his hand might show up like that due to his injury. Funny, I would have never paid attention to that otherwise.

[jefferyepayne]

Me neither! It wasn't until I learned about his injury that I went back and looked at the picture and it struck me as a bit odd how different his hand were positioned. Maybe nothing but an interesting theory.

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Card #12 in the Chicle set is Tom Hupke. Tom played for the Detroit Lions and Cleveland Rams during his NFL career. He was on the Lions team that won the 1935 NFL Championship. More info on his playing career is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hupke

Tom was a 2x All-American guard at Alabama but was critically injured in a car crash that claimed the life of one of his passengers, while he and others were heading home from school for Christmas in Dec '32. For a while they thought he might lose his left arm due to crash injuries but he recovered. He subsequently had surgery on his arm to correct nerve damage but it is unclear how much this impacted the rest of his playing career. I noticed in his picture that he has one hand open and one closed. Not sure if this is just a pose or if he had on-going arm issues that impacted his ability to use one of his arms.

Tom died young at 48 in 1959 after an extended illness.

[jefferyepayne]

Card #13 in the Chicle set is Homer Griffith. Homer's card is the first error card in the Chicle set as his name is spelled "Griffiths" on the front. There are more of these to come later.

Homer was a three year letterman and All-American at USC, leading them to two consecutive Rose Bowl victories. He was selected as the Player of the Game in the 1933 Rose Bowl in which USC beat Pitt 35-0. Griffith threw for a TD and ran for a TD as USC completed an undefeated season.

Homer Griffith only played one year in the NFL for the Chicago Cardinals. He completed 29% of his passes and averaged 1.2 yards per rush during his only season.

Griffith was inducted into the USC Sports Hall of Fame in 1999.

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Homer Griffith being tackled against Oregon State.

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jeff

[vintagetopps]

Ouch. Keep your head up! A thigh to the head is going to cause some serious pain.

[jefferyepayne]

Card #14 in the Chicle set is Phil Sarboe. Phil's card is the second error card in the Chicle set as his name is spelled "Sorboe" on the front and back.

Phil was born in Alaska and played college ball at Washington State. He played five years in the NFL for the Boston Redskins, Chicago Cardinals, and Brooklyn Dodgers. As a quarterback, his numbers weren't very good. He threw for four TD's and twenty six interceptions during his short career.

After playing in the NFL, Phil became a successful high school and college coach. He was head coach at Washington State for five years with his most successful team going 6-2-1. During a 15 year stint as head coach at Humboldt State, his teams won six conference championships, went 104-37-4 overall, and made it to the NAIA championship game in 1960.

Sarboe was inducted into the Washington State Athletics Hall of Fame in 1980.

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Here's Sarboe as a head coach at Washington State (3rd row, far right)

sarboe.jpg

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Card #15 in the Chicle set is Ben Ciccone. Ben played college ball at Duquesne in Pittsburgh, PA, having grown up in New Castle, PA which is located near Pittsburgh. Not a lot is known about his college years except that he was a member of the Alpha Phi Delta fraternity (apd.org) and was the football team's star center.

Ben played center and some linebacker in the NFL for three years. In 1934 and 1935 he played for the Pittsburgh Pirates, who changed their name to the Steelers in 1940. In 1937 he played semi-pro ball for the Cincinnati Bengals. After retiring, he came back and played two games for the Chicago Cardinals in 1942. Ben may hold the NFL record for worse rushing average in a career as he had one rushing attempt in the NFL for -5 yards.

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jeff

[vintagetopps]

checkout them jerseys.

[jefferyepayne]

And what's with the logo on the front of the jersey? I can't figure out what it's supposed to be.

jeff

[ecRich]

Hey Jeff,
Really enjoy this thread. You have brought these players to to life with your interesting background info. on these guys. Too bad Chicle didn't issue 240 cards, we would be treated to over six more months of this. Great set and good job covering it.
Thanks,
Rich

[jefferyepayne]

Thanks Rich. It's been fun so far. Just glad there are a few people reading these posts other than me!

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Card #16 in the Chicle set is Ben Smith. Ben played college ball at Alabama where we was a member of the 1930 national championship team. Alabama was so good that year that they often started their second team to psych out their opponents. Alabama only gave up 13 points the entire season and beat undefeated Washington State 24-0 in the Rose Bowl.

Ben Smith played pro football from 1933 - 1937 where he played End on both offense and defense. He played one season with the Green Bay Packers ('33), two seasons with the Pittsburgh Pirates ('34-35), and one season with the Washington Redskins ('37) in the NFL. He was a member of the 1937 Washington Redskins team that won the NFL championship. Ben left the Pirates after the 1935 season to play with the Pittsburgh Americans in the newly formed American Football League (AFL). The team existed for only a little more than a season and this version of the AFL folded after just two seasons of play. Ben jumped back to the NFL after one season of play with the Americans.

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jeff