PayPal: another reason for sellers not to use it

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Posted By: jay behrens

Just got hammered by PayPal. I shipped and item to a buyer who did not purchase insurance. The package wwas damaged by the post office and the buyer demanded that I refund his money even though he didn't get insurance. He filed a claim thru PayPal saying that we did not selling the item described. PayPal claims to have conducted an investigation but I was never contacted by them to find out my side of the story. They went ahead and refunded his money.

If this is standard PayPal practice, why in the world would any seller in their right mind ever take PayPal? The buyer no longer needs to pay for shippping insurance, they can just file a claim with PayPal.

PayPal's investigation is total joke. There was none.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: T206Collector

When I sell an item on ebay, I charge a standard $2.50 s/h fee no matter how many of my items you win. If the amount goes over $50.00, I will purchase the insurance myself, to cover any unexpected losses -- it's just not that expensive. I do not try to shift that risk to the buyer. If the amount is under $50.00, I'll refund the money if requested. Again, just not a big enough deal to make a stink of and I've never had any problems with this theory.

PayPal rocks because I don't have to wait for a check to arrive and then worry that the check will bounce. I also don't have to go to the bank/post office to cash a money order. I get the money almost as soon as the auction ends. Now that is very cool, in my opinion.

Moreover, I have often not bid on auctions where the seller did not accept PayPal. Rather, I have often been encouraged to bid on auctions where the seller does accept PayPal. That alone should tell you why sellers should use it -- many of their customers like it.

I have heard a lot of scare stores about PayPal and am sure I will one day know the joys of getting screwed over by them. But I generally view complaints about PayPal as I do complaints about buying cards on eBay -- it may not be perfect, but I've bought a ton of cool stuff that way.

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Posted By: John J. Grillo

I think a seller refusing to use paypal is a mistake. I wouldn't strictly look at this from a seller's viewpoint and from a single transaction. Think about how many times someone who didn't have the cash on hand has sniped one of our auctions because they were willing to pay via credit card and drove the final price of our item(s) higher. I believe more bidders will be willing to bid on our items because of paypal. Yes, paypal charges a fee, but the increase in the potential customer base slightly outweighs this imo.

Jay, you always have the option of making insurance mandatory. Most buyers will not care as long as the total shipping price w/insurance is a fair amount.

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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

One word -

eCheck...yes you have to wait for it to clear...but at 5 bucks cap... it's worth it...especially if you sell items in the thousands of dollars.

Regards,

Black Sox Fan

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* I'm smart enough to know that there are a lot of people who know more than I do.

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Posted By: dennis

i sold 2 sets of cards for over $3500 to the same buyer and he paid with echeck and i was so happy to see they only charged $5.00,i was expecting to take a big hit w/paypal! can you request buyers to pay for bigger $ items only w/echeck?

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Posted By: identify7

Of course you can require any payment terms, but the more restrictive your requirements are, the less bidders you will have. Alternately, you can offer incentives for preferred payment methods, such as reduced shipping, free insurance, etc.

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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

There is no way to "require" the system to only accept that form of payment. You can however, do whatever you'd like in your auction terms. Remember though, the amount you save on fees may more than compensate for any problems with buyers not bidding b/c they don't want to pay with eCheck. Night guys...more anouncements to come monday.

Regards,

Black Sox Fan

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Posted By: jay behrens

For me, this isn't an isolated incident. I've had several problems with PayPal in regards to people trying to pull scams, etc. It's really frustrating. No matter what you try to do, there is always some scumbag out there that will find a loophole and abuse it. The buyer has had a history of being a problem buying. Sadly, with sniping so prevelent, there really is no way to ban these people before the auction closes.

The most frustrating aspect of the whole thing was the supposed investigation. There was none. There was a complaint filed by the buyer and not a single follow up to see what my side of the story was. Even in the intial complaint he files, there was no way for me refute any aligation he made. My only options were a full refund, partial refund, or no refund. The latter 2 options eventually leading to PayPal investigating (LMFAO!!!) the matter. I wouldn't be so pissed if they actually had contacted me to find out that the buyer was shipped what he paid for and that it was the post office that damaged the item.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Actually you apparently cant dictate payment terms with paypal. Ebay cancelled one of my auctions recently b/c it stated that I would only accept bank transfers via paypal and would not take credit cards.

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Posted By: jay behrens

That isn't surpriseing at all. They look at as you trying to get around having to pay the fees they so covet. Remember, when it comes to eBay, it's all about the all mighty $$$ and the customers be damned.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

lol ... those guys changed that august 19th...used to be able to do that ... we did on a couple of high ticket items.

Regards,

Black Sox Fan

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Posted By: Robert

I had a guy who paid with PAYPAL make a claim that he never received the cards and filed a dispute. THe guy then received the cards and posted a positive feedback for the transaction and PAYPAL still took the money out of my account. I pleaded with them to check the feedback and contact the buyer and they did nothing. I asked 10 times for the buyer to remove the dispute and he said that when he tried he could not. And of course the buyer basically dissappeared after everything was said and done. Luckily it was for only $60.00 but it was the principal that PAYPAL did no investigating what so ever. I have paid about $20,000 in fee to them the past year and no longer accept them as a source of patment. It was a joke on there part and Paypal and Ebay are the same company so for them to find out the truth and contact the buyer would have taken minutes for them.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Jay, if the buyer says the item was damaged during mailing, I don't see how he could get the payment from PayPal. As far as I know, PayPal takes the money from the seller if the item was not delivered or was a fake, not because of damage by the Post Office.

Also, if he told you the item was damaged during mailing, but used another story to get the money from PayPal (item was a fake or wrong item was sent), that might be fraud.

Lastly, PayPal is a private company with rules, not a court with laws. Many of their rules are unique to the company and extend no further than the borders of their business. If the auction and invoice clearly said the buyer was responisble for mailing damage if he or she did not pay for insurance, the buyer likely is still responsible for paying you. PayPal returning his money according to their rules, simply means the buyer will have to find another way to pay his debt.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I also had a bed experience with Paypal. If someone is using Paypal there is no use in spending the money on insurance because Paypal will ONLY stand behind the buyer no matter what you have done. They have there policies on how to ship and it is suppose to protect you,but it does not. For some reason they defend the people that are not even paying the fees for Paypal. I still use Paypal but only for items over $50 and hope I don't get drilled again.

What's interesting is that the major auction houses don't allow credit cards (thank goodness or I probably would have to mortgage my house) and one of our favorite seller, Scott Gaynor does not accept Paypal, yet they all realize excellent prices on there auctions.

I have a personal account and oour attic2cash account to use for Credit card acceptance. I link my ebay auctin to my personal account with a note if you are not using Paypal funds to contact me so I can give you the other account. I only have to redirect about 40% of my buyers.

Lee

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Posted By: Mike P.

To avoid these kind of snafus I will immediately send any money that I get sent into paypal directly to my bank account. Paypal can't go into your account and take funds out. If something screwy were to happen the worst that will occur is that you will lose your account and paypal sends an email to the buyer that funds were not able to be recouped.

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Posted By: Geno

Don't they just charge the credit card you have on file if there are no funds? Or is that illegal?

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Posted By: pete

this happened to me also where insurance was not purchased for a $44 card and buyer said he never received it, and since i did not (i do now on every sale) have a delivery confirmation number they were going to grant the claim. i happened to be telling a friend of mine and he told me to empty my paypal account since paypal CANNOT take anything from your bank account....so i did, and paypal cancelled my account with them...and now i have 2 banks and 2 email addresses...and if i remember correctly, paypal uses the credit card for security reasons only unless you authorize them to bill it, but that may have changed.

my best pitch was the one that made it to the plate!

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Posted By: Geno

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they charged your credit card, you could just have the bank dispute it as an unauthorized charge. That might be interesting to see who wins that battle. Maybe it's in Paypal's user agreement so you'd lose anyway...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Paypal did the same to me early in the summer- a package was lost in the mail, the buyer got nervous and lodged a complaint, and paypal took $625 out of my account. I spent hours on the phone with them and they wouldn't listen to anything I had to say- even the fact the buyer knew I shipped it and it was just lost in transit. When he received it after two weeks, he dropped the complaint and that was it. Paypal said it would take them 45 days to review my side of the story. I almost dropped them right there, but after I calmed down I just got past the whole incident. It was extremely frustrating.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

What is goofy is that Paypal has already lost a case in court on this similar action. I was refunded a couple of months ago after they lost the case. It is amazing they are continuing this practice. Did anyone else receive this refund?

Lee

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Posted By: Mike P.

Yeah, I received my huge $14 check about 6 months ago. I did the short form so I think that is why I got a pittance.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

That sounds like the same amount I received.

Lee

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Posted By: david

i also had a similar incident with paypal and as a result i no longer accept paypal for my auctions. i sent an item,insured but not delivery confirmation, to the winner and after three days of the auction he filed a complaint with paypal for not recieving the item. untilmately the item arrived but paypal never 'investigated' to find out that the item actually arrived. after filling criminal complaints for mail fraud the buyer sent the money back as paypal refused to reverse the deductions from my account.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

However, their investigations are such jokes that I always pay with a credit card. I figure I will have a better chance in a fight with a credit card.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I actually seriously thought about dropping my paypal account but I was afraid it would discourage bidders who didn't already know me. What do others think about that? Do you lose some of your market if you don't accept paypal, or is it just a myth?

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Posted By: andy becker

from a selller's standpoint, paypal sux. period.
hey barry, i don't accept paypal in my auctions. and i really don't think it hurts sales on prewar issues. if you were selling what i needed for my collection, i'd pay any ole' way you wanted me to

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Andy, though a larger sample would help. For now, I'm sticking with paypal. If I have another problem, I'll have to reevaluate.