Chief Wahoo in the Crosshairs

[Tripredacus]

Originally Posted by tschock

Just curious for input from the 'taking offense on other's behalf' crowd. When is a symbol NOT offensive?

This is an interesting subject that is glossed over, a subject of how a human being thinks, outside of just baseball. When a person looks at something, their reaction to it reveals their own character, yet what we read in the news is actually people projecting their own beliefs as fact.

A logo cannot be "racist" in any way because racism is the act of limiting or excluding others of something based on perceived race. An image can be the symbol of racism, only if the symbol is used in proper context. Chief Wahoo is the symbol of a baseball team, and no where in their usage of it has it been used in such a way that has been detrimental to Native Americans or anything else. (For example, the Cleveland Indians never denied entry of Native Americans to games or to play on their team while using the logo.)

So until it can be proven that Chief Wahoo has been used as a symbol (by the Cleveland Indians) in a manner that has been detrimental to Native Americans, then any complaints about it are just opinion.

In reality, this isn't the 17th century anymore. People should look at Chief Wahoo and laugh. To think, we thought the New World was India! To think, we thought "Indians" had red skin! They don't, how silly/dumb we were many years ago.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Tripredacus

So until it can be proven that Chief Wahoo has been used as a symbol (by the Cleveland Indians) in a manner that has been detrimental to Native Americans, then any complaints about it are just opinion.

Originally Posted by "Excerpt from American Psychological Association"

"We know from the literature that oppression, covert and overt racism, and perceived racism can have serious negative consequences for the mental health of American Indian and Alaska native (AIAN) people. The discontinued use of American Indian mascots is a gesture to show that this kind of racism toward and the disrespect of, all people in our country and in the larger global context, will not be tolerated," said Dr. Lisa Thomas, APA Committee on Ethnic and Minority Affairs

http://www.apa.org/pi/oema/resources...n-mascots.aspx

[Tripredacus]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

http://www.apa.org/pi/oema/resources...n-mascots.aspx

From that

"American Indian mascots are harmful not only because they are often negative, but because they remind American Indians of the limited ways in which others see them. This in turn restricts the number of ways American Indians can see themselves."

This example isn't a direct relation. Again, people are projecting their own thoughts of a logo rather than what it is. The creator of the logo even can say how it was created and what it represents, and then another person looks at it and says that the creator is then wrong, solely because of what that person thinks. This plays into exactly what I was speaking of earlier and there is no relation to this and Chief Wahoo and the Cleveland Indians directly.

[steve B]

Well, here goes.


I think overall we as a country have become far too thin skinned. Nearly everything offends someone, and we've become both so easily offended even by stuff not directed at us, and so cautious of offending that I really wonder how we manage to do anything at all.

Here in Mass, we have a state lawmaker pushing a law that would ban any native American names or logos for school sports teams and maybe a few other things too. Of course she uses a letterhead design that includes the Massachusetts state seal, which has as a central figure............an Indian. Seriously, you can't make this nonsense up.

The Yankees logos offend me because I really don't like them. Maybe I should get a group together to get them to stop using those stupid pinstripes and confusing interlocked NY I mean in this day of alternate color hats, is that a Mets logo? Giants?
Of course, the team I like- the Red Sox could be subject to the same thing! I mean who wears red socks these days, and don't those socks represent the subjugation of women through laundry?

Can't a native American name or logo be used and taken in a positive way? Or must they all be somehow offensive?

Steve B

[pokerplyr80]

I'm not a big fan of all the pc bs that is so prevalent in today's society. But it is hard to imagine a more offensive team mascot than Chief Wahoo. I'm surprised he's lasted this long.

[Republicaninmass]

My high school was the "pioneers" certainly could have issues with that one.


My alma mater, Amherst, named after the first guy to use biological warfare against the natives. Where does it stop?

[packs]

I don't understand the PC argument really. To me it isn't a matter of political correctness, if it was then people would be saying the team should be renamed the Cleveland Native Americans. The issue to me is that Chief Wahoo is an outdated stereotype and not really necessary at all to the team. They lose nothing by adopting the Cleveland C.

[Snapolit1]

The logos are one thing but that stupid 'effin tomahawk chop down in Atlanta is just the lamest thing in the entire sports world. 1000s of people standing up like idiots with dumb smiles on making some imiatation of a tomahawk chop and hooting. Uggh.

[clydepepper]

Lighten up Steve.

The Tomahawk Chomp, which, honestly, originated at Florida State, is fun when the Braves are rallying.

What was very, very lame was them orchestrating a 'final chop' after the last game at Turner Field. That game was a great 1-0 pitchers' duel between Teheran and Verlander, but the 'celebration activity' that followed was very, very lame...seeing Hank Aaron was the only great part of it.

On the other hand, EVERYTHING about the opening game at SunTrust Park was great!...including thousands of foam tomahawks in unison when the Braves started winning the game.

If it were not for the Tomahawk Chop, you never would have heard that hilarious report of a truckload of the foam tomahawks overturning and stopping yet more traffic in Atlanta...now, that was funny!