T206 "Wagner" of Soccer Cards - Proposal

[Anish]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I agree this is a very interesting discussion. The Nagurski, Vezina, and Mikan cards are almost universally on a "Mt. Rushmore" of cards for that particular sport. I think the fact that you have owned all three of them, but will never be able to afford a Wagner T206 is because baseball far and away trumps everything else when it comes to prices. There are numerous $10,000+ baseball cards of players that the general public has never even heard of.

Not that Joe Orlando is the be all and end all when it comes to cards, but IIRC those cards were the highest ranked cards in their particular sport when he did his top 200 sports cards book.

There is no "correct" criteria for what make a card a Wagner equivalent in other sports. But to me, I think the card has to trade hands at least once or twice a year. That is why I would go with the Nagurski card over the Anonymous (John Dunlop) Mayo card for American football. The Just So Cy Young card would, no, doubt, fetch an eye-popping price if it were to go to auction. But it is just not common enough to be compared to the mystique of the Wagner. Being easily available has not hurt the desirability (and mystique) of the '52 Topps Mantle at all.

The Graziano card is interesting case; it is far away the most valuable boxing card in the hobby, but Graziano (while a world champion) is not on anyone's list of top 10 or top 20 all-time boxers. Same thing for the McKinley card from the 1932 U.S. Caramel set. Hockey and baseball also have some extreme short prints that sell for five or even six figures based solely the issuing company not printing many examples so a prize could not be redeemed.

Sure, but the cost is a function of it being a short print - not simply because it’s a baseball card. If it were printed in the same quantity as the Cobb, the Cobb would likely sell for more and the Wagner would be as attainable as any of the other cards mentioned.

You can’t describe the importance of the Wagner without explaining that it is extremely short printed relative to the rest of the set and that the reason may have something to do with Wagner himself. That’s not the case with Mikan, Nagurski, and Vezina. Those are more like the T206 Cobb’s or Sporting News Ruths of their sports. I love my Pele Quigols and my C55 Vezina, but I couldn’t with a straight face hold up either and say it’s the T206 Wagner of anything.

But, yes, Al - what are your other ideas? XD

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by Anish

Sure, but the cost is a function of it being a short print - not simply because it’s a baseball card. If it were printed in the same quantity as the Cobb, the Cobb would likely sell for more and the Wagner would be as attainable as any of the other cards mentioned.

You can’t describe the importance of the Wagner without explaining that it is extremely short printed relative to the rest of the set and that the reason may have something to do with Wagner himself. That’s not the case with Mikan, Nagurski, and Vezina. Those are more like the T206 Cobb’s or Sporting News Ruths of their sports. I love my Pele Quigols and my C55 Vezina, but I couldn’t with a straight face hold up either and say it’s the T206 Wagner of anything.

But, yes, Al - what are your other ideas? XD

... than the Billy Meredith.... Over the next week, I will post 5 or so alternatives, though I may need to go into post war....


Al

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Anish

Sure, but the cost is a function of it being a short print - not simply because it’s a baseball card. If it were printed in the same quantity as the Cobb, the Cobb would likely sell for more and the Wagner would be as attainable as any of the other cards mentioned.

You can’t describe the importance of the Wagner without explaining that it is extremely short printed relative to the rest of the set and that the reason may have something to do with Wagner himself. That’s not the case with Mikan, Nagurski, and Vezina. Those are more like the T206 Cobb’s or Sporting News Ruths of their sports. I love my Pele Quigols and my C55 Vezina, but I couldn’t with a straight face hold up either and say it’s the T206 Wagner of anything.

But, yes, Al - what are your other ideas? XD

I understand what you are saying. But there are 60-70 Wagners in existence. It's $400,000 just to own a beat-up, folded and mangled example. There is no other sport with a $400,000 beater that is so plentiful. There are more Vezina, Nagurski and Mikan cards in existence, but those are also a few thousand dollars to own an example instead of $400,000.

There are lots and lots 52T Mantles in existence and that is an $8,000-9,000 card just to own a beater example, because it's baseball.