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  #1  
Old 04-17-2015, 12:50 PM
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Default Help! The Hobby is DYYYINNGGGGG!!!!

Boy, have times changed. As a kid who grew up in the 80's and 90's, when you would turn on an "oldies" radio station, you might hear songs from Elvis, the Temptations, the Beatles and Johnny Cash. We thought we could re-live how life was for our parents growing up by watching sitcoms such as the Wonder Years.

Fun fact, did you know that THIS is the guy who was the narrator for The Wonder Years?!



Yeah, I know! Blew my mind too.

Jokes would flow about asking your parents how it was to have a dinosaur for a pet, or if they could only see black and white back then (a reference to the lack of color television ... I'm proud of that one, thank you very much!)

Just recently, things have gotten real for me. If we take the same time period difference, today's oldies stations would be playing Pearl Jam, Snoop Dogg, Metallica and the Backstreet Boys. The Wonder Years would be about life growing up in the 90's.

The 90's Wonder Years would fondly reminisce about how we old fogies had to actually go to a library to look up information. We would need to either find a pay-phone to make a call or wait until we got home. Computers would be just getting into playing 2" x 2" grainy video in full color (and we would all think it was amazing.)

In a newspaper, you might find an advertisement like this:



The bizarre thing of it all is that every single one of these things can be done with a single cell phone that most of us have on us at all times. Well...except for when driving, while at the dinner table, or when talking to others ... you aren't on your phone when driving or conversing with others, ARE YOU?!?!?!)

When watching today's movies, I see the "hot young stars" from my youth look not so hot and young anymore. Brad Pitt is an old man, Jennifer Lopez is deeply engulfed into her 40's and many of our baseball heroes from the 80's can be found spouting off nonsensical things via twitter.

I have run into quite a few threads recently online about my beloved hobby - baseball card collecting. Many people online are saying that the hobby is DYING. It is on life support. It has been overtaken by people who want to make a quick buck, and will be cutthroats to get what they want.

Accusations are flying about how group breaks and card flippers are systematically destroying the hobby.

But are they really?

We have all heard it before - about how we got here. Back in the 80's, if you didn't have a Beckett price guide, you were simply clueless. I remember scoffing when someone offered me 25% book value for some cards I brought to them (highway robbery, I tell ya!)

Ebay comes along, and we collectors are met with our first healthy dose of supply and demand. The 1989 Donruss Ken Griffey Jr. rated rookie may have had several price guides back then stating it is $10, but, if 1000 people have them at $10 online, and there are only 48 buyers, what happens to the other 952? The prices drop ..... and drop ... and drop ... until they can be had for $1.50 each.

Boom. "The bottom has dropped out of the card market, and all of our cards are worthless."

I still hear this time and time again from people, but to be perfectly honest, that line is tired. Yeah, cards from 1989 are not worth what they were back in 1989, but get over it. Don't throw the baby out with the '90 donruss. Today's cards can have tremendous value. Far more than what 1989 cards had back in 1989 even.

I know it isn't a popular thing to say, but I'll go ahead and say it: Card companies have done a great job in bringing the hobby along to where it is now. With die cut and insert innovations, to adding game used pieces and pack pulled autographs - brilliant! (Now all they need to do is make some cards like the FOUR ONE release and we'll be all set!

Look, 15 years after 1989, we all knew what junk wax was. That is what happens when you produce BILLIONS of a certain set for a year. This is NOT a death sentence for all cards going forward. Today, in 2015, we still look back very fondly at cards from 15+ years ago - and there is still value. Especially the inserts and parallels. Some of the cards I dream of owning are from 15+ years ago.

Now that we have access to ebay, we are now able to get a better understanding of what things truly are worth in real-time. I am not about to disrespect Beckett though - I'm merely saying it has gone from being the card value bible to what its name suggests it is: a guide. Just like ebay.

Ebay is certainly not the card value bible either, as I would venture to say card transactions that occur there are only a small piece of the pie. One thing to realize is that there are still new collectors coming on board, and young adults that are coming back to the hobby as well, after a hiatus due to having a family and starting a career.

Nothing under the sun is new.

Yes, there are tons of people buying just to re-sell cards, and there are prospectors who hoard all of the latest Kris Bryant cards for profit, but that is okay. Let them do their thing, and you do yours. There are bad guys out there trying to put fake patches in cards, and even card companies that have recently come under fire due to the potential fake jersey pieces and autographs, but again - this is nothing new.

When all is said and done, I don't have any charts to prove my point that the hobby is not dying, but I do know that people aren't going to shops or shows as much anymore. I don't think that is an accurate way to taking the pulse of the hobby, though. I think people are just doing what people in 2015 do - they do things online!

There are TONS of people out there who do nothing but stay at their computers all day checking ebay for new treasures and chatting it up with other collectors on card forums. I wouldn't say our hobby is dying. I'd just say it is changing. I do have fond memories of the simplicity of collecting back when I was a kid. And while I sure do miss having my neighborhood friends coming over to trade their Canseco cards for my Will Clark cards, I am now okay with the fact that my new neighborhood trading buddies are thousands of miles away. It may not be as cool as sitting down with someone, but it sure does make getting the mail fun, and takes the sting out of seeing what bills await me as well.

Agree? Disagree? Opinions welcomed!
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2015, 01:21 PM
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Is it a "hobby" or an industry?
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  #3  
Old 04-17-2015, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963Topps Set View Post
Is it a "hobby" or an industry?
I guess it depends upon which aspect you are talking about, and to whom you are speaking This is like asking is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable. To me, it is a vegetable for one reason - tomatoes are gross, and in order to be a fruit, you must be delicious.

For me, when I'm collecting Canseco cards, it is a hobby. When I am buying and selling resell lots, it is industry ... well, let me revise that. It is somewhere in between, because it isn't all about money for me. If it were, there are other far more profitable things I could be dabbling in. So, lets make this a new word:

Hobbistry. (Copyright 2015, Mouschi)
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  #4  
Old 04-17-2015, 02:37 PM
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" I hope some small creature does not bore a hole in my head and lay it's eggs, because then, later, when I think I am having a great idea, it might just be the eggs hatching".... Jack Handey
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  #5  
Old 04-17-2015, 08:00 PM
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Great commentary, and very well written. I enjoyed that, thanks! I'm a child of the 70's and 80's, and 89 was certainly a pivotal year in the hobby/industry. I was buying cases of Donruss/Upper Deck/Fleer/Topps with the rest of them...and then DONE by the end of 90.

I do think there has been a complete resurgence in the hobby for my generation. I can't tell you how many times I have heard my exact same story. Collected as a kid...got out of it during the junk years...came back in their 30s & 40s as Ebay has now made getting those vintage cards that were so out of reach for us as a kid completely accessible. I wouldn't say its dying either, far from it...when I can go buy a 54 Topps Aaron PSA 8 for $100, I will concede...
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  #6  
Old 04-18-2015, 12:41 PM
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Based on recent auction prices of cards I follow and appreciate, the hobby is definitely not dying. Some areas of the hobby are more active than others, but overall we've got a long way to go before the funeral mourners start parading down the street for this hobby. Sports are still a popular form of entertainment, and many people have this innate desire to collect stuff.

The original post was an interesting read.
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  #7  
Old 04-18-2015, 02:23 PM
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Mouschi - PM sent
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  #8  
Old 04-19-2015, 09:37 AM
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Is the OP the official blogger of Net54?

I too am a child of the 80s and 90s, so I know where you're coming from. On Friday I went to lunch with some of the guys that work for me. As we were talking about current events, I realized that I was the only one in the group that experienced the 80s. It was slightly depressing.
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  #9  
Old 04-19-2015, 09:47 AM
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I haven't experienced or encountered people proclaiming the hobby dead at all. It is a very big field with so many different types of cards within it, so it all depends what one is talking about, specifically. It's hard to discuss in the most general terms, because we can't really lump in a Babe Ruth RC or T210 Shoeless Joe with the likes of a 1991 Fleer Wax Case. It is true that the 100t lot of 1988 Fleer Ricky Jordans is not worth much right now.

Yet from the headline cards in the likes of each year's REA and HA auctions, all the way to daily auctions on eBay (where 1986 Donruss Canseco's in PSA 10 still command $75 or so, 84D Mattinglys time and again crack $600, and Registry commons fetch $$$$), the hobby seems downright robust.
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  #10  
Old 04-23-2015, 10:48 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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100% agree so I will reluctantly offer 60% on all book prices of mantles, aarons, ruths, ryans and roses just to bail everyone out or I will trade you my ricky jordans. your call. send them to me quickly, though!

in all seriousness, great write up and use of words and thanks for the knowledge drop on the home alone bandit narrating the wonder years! never knew.

man, what I woulda gave for just a few minutes w. that winnie cooper. woulda been the roughest 61 seconds of her life! ; )
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2015, 09:08 AM
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The hobby isn't dying, but it would be fair to say its best days are behind it. This doesn't shock me because one of the things I've learned in my 62 years is that things change, everywhere. So to see the hobby change from its peak in say the 1990's is what I would expect, not something that would surprise me.

As I've mentioned I collect large cents, American pennies minted between 1793 and 1857. The typical age for a serious large cent collector is probably somewhere between 45 and 70. Not a lot of young people are jumping in, which is not a great omen for the future of that hobby. But life changes, so what can you do?

And The Wonder Years was one of my favorite shows, and I did know that Daniel Stern was the narrator.

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  #12  
Old 04-25-2015, 07:58 PM
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Actually, I feel the baseball card industry peaked in the late 1980s. In 1989, I was unable to make a dent in the 1970 Topps set. In 1993 I was able to complete the 1959 Topps set. The 1994 baseball strike helped me a lot by killing the industry and getting rid of a lot of profiteers and freeloaders.
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2015, 08:10 PM
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Default A hobby

At 65 it is still just a hobby for me. Since it is just a hobby , I do not care if it has peaked or not.
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Old 05-11-2015, 07:32 PM
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I enjoyed the nostalgic read as well. I was born in 80 and love the boom in the late 80s-early 90s. So many great memories with dad and friends...

I'm pessimistic about the hobby, though. That said, anyone who thinks it's dead right now just needs to look at eBay.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2015, 08:23 PM
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If you are looking at eBay to cheer yourself up about the hobby be sure not to compare how it looks now to a few years ago
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
At 65 it is still just a hobby for me. Since it is just a hobby , I do not care if it has peaked or not.

Ditto for me......except I'm not 65....I'm 40.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:37 AM
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"Life begins at 40, but so do fallen arches, rheumatism, faulty eye sight, and the tendency to tell a story to the same person three or four times"...Helen Roland
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:06 PM
ls7plus ls7plus is offline
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Anyone who thinks the hobby is dying should take a look at the changes in REA's auction catalog over the last 20+ years--I have one I believe is from 1993, and its about 6-8 double-sided pages on newspaper-type stock. Now, it seems to grow and grow every year, and is presently over 500 pages of the highest grade, glossy stock available. Of course, REA focuses on where the true value lies in the hobby: rare, truly significant items in the best grade you can find or afford.

The fatal flaw with new cards is that the highest demand and hence price tends to be for "one of...(insert limited quantity)" of such players as Mike Trout or Bryce Harper, where the significant aspect will not be determinable for many years. Pay $50K for a one of three Trout refractor rookie and you may be near tears when he later turns out to be Pete Reiser, Rick Reichardt, Tony Conigliaro, Ron Swoboda, Kerry Wood, Joe Mauer, Steven Strasburg, or even Rocky Colavito, let alone A-Roid (Reichardt and Swoboda were also "the new Mickey Mantle" for awhile in their time). Let him age into his mid to late 30's to see where he really ends up at. His cards will all still be out there. Demand for the latest and greatest is speculative and transient, while that for rare and significant items tends to be lasting and growing, as the number of knowledgeable collectors grows.

The hobby certainly isn't dying, and won't, as long as baseball is around, and collectors are interested in its history. There is, however, a maturing process that occurs within the hobby, and it seems every generation of collectors must learn and accept the above. Paying big bucks for the latest wunderkind to burst upon the scene is no different than taking your wad to the craps or roulette table--which is perfectly fine, so long as you realize exactly what it is that you are doing (and given the asking price for some of these modern "gems," craps and roulette may well have a higher upside). Patience is the order of the day when thinking about spending any significant sums on these kinds of cards/players. You can't make something worth the price you'll have to pay if you submit to the GOTTA HAVE HIM NOW urge by wishing it to be so. Time is the factor that will reveal true and growing value.

May your collecting bring you joy, rather than pain,

Larry

Last edited by ls7plus; 06-10-2015 at 04:15 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-10-2015, 06:30 PM
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This takes a real load off my mind
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  #20  
Old 07-15-2015, 09:34 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
This takes a real load off my mind
many stars lose their power..guys like George foster are considered commons...guys with 4+ all star years who aren't HOFs and the POP isn't low for the grade in the era that's most sought out for in set building are commons to most people..

Ruth , Gehrig....those are different issues....but when I collected the 1952s..im pretty sure I was bidding and losing on certain 'star' cards but to me they were just commons...but eventually the bidding died down on those type of players...Mantle no...but Smokey Burgess for example..i never heard of the guy..to most people we only cared about his POP and high number status and grade....the fact that he was an all star meant nothing...

so basically the stars of today..maybe 2% of the next 40 stars become the 'mantle' for people buying those cards 30 years from now and on...etc......but in the short term to people seeing them as current stars..they aren't paying for them knowing that only a small number of the stars will be the guys that collectors 30 years from now care about ..besides the card, grade, POP etc..

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 07-15-2015 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:23 AM
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I think the hobby is certainly transitioning.

It seems the short memories and attention span of most of the new Millennial generation makes these new cards seem like a good short term and poor long term investment. Todays new cards are a flipper or speculators dream. I believe this is the reasoning behind demand for "Superfractor" type cards as the loss risk is there but the gains can be exponential. The problem in my mind would be holding these cards long term as it seems the interest in that generation is generally nill the moment those players leave the sport. Only to return for a short term if a HOF possibility is mentioned.

The older cards are certainly in a renaissance currently which I see as holding strong for at least the next 20 years. The issue is the collectors of those cards, even those up to the 1970's are certainly aging. I don't think these cards will hold demand after the Boomers have left except in a much smaller circle. I see a large supply vs. demand of many issues, especially of the modern card era coming around 2025.

To be quite honest as a 41 year old collector, facing the possible accessibility of numerous cards I have always coveted around age 60 sounds nice. However, I think the price I am paying today is going to be regretted.

In retrospect, the happiness these cards bring is worth quite a lot.
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinD View Post
I think the hobby is certainly transitioning.

It seems the short memories and attention span of most of the new Millennial generation makes these new cards seem like a good short term and poor long term investment. Todays new cards are a flipper or speculators dream. I believe this is the reasoning behind demand for "Superfractor" type cards as the loss risk is there but the gains can be exponential. The problem in my mind would be holding these cards long term as it seems the interest in that generation is generally nill the moment those players leave the sport. Only to return for a short term if a HOF possibility is mentioned.

The older cards are certainly in a renaissance currently which I see as holding strong for at least the next 20 years. The issue is the collectors of those cards, even those up to the 1970's are certainly aging. I don't think these cards will hold demand after the Boomers have left except in a much smaller circle. I see a large supply vs. demand of many issues, especially of the modern card era coming around 2025.

To be quite honest as a 41 year old collector, facing the possible accessibility of numerous cards I have always coveted around age 60 sounds nice. However, I think the price I am paying today is going to be regretted.

In retrospect, the happiness these cards bring is worth quite a lot.
+1 Spot on and the reason I collect for fun, not profit/business.
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:49 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t206blogcom View Post
+1 Spot on and the reason I collect for fun, not profit/business.
I agree with you as well...I will be competing with you to buy these cards 20 years from now as well though

people go to the casino for entertainment,i think I lose less money in cards..


incidentally if you start a thread about 'is the hobby good as ever, is this a bubble, or is the hobby dieing' you will get 100s of replys for sure

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 07-16-2015 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:03 PM
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To be quite honest as a 41 year old collector, facing the possible accessibility of numerous cards I have always coveted around age 60 sounds nice. However, I think the price I am paying today is going to be regretted.

In retrospect, the happiness these cards bring is worth quite a lot. [/QUOTE]

I agree that this is a great post. I am also 40 years old and think that the demand for cards from the 1940s-1970s will decrease to some extent making them more affordable in the future. I don't think they will bottom out but the demand may decline once collectors who watched these players are no longer here. Collectors from my age group are returning to the hobby and younger collectors definitely respect the vintage cardboard but I don't think it will be enough to replace the "boomers" who are no longer around. Supply may catch up with demand. Regardless, this won't stop me from purchasing as many of the key cards from that era that I can afford now.
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Old 07-17-2015, 11:59 AM
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starting in the 1950s, baseball card collecting was largely something children and youth did. adults rarely ventured into card collecting as it was marketed towards and culturally accepted as a kid's hobby. baseball card collecting dramatically changed in the 80s as it became more of older young and middle aged men pursuing junk wax to make a profit. cards became more like assets - and as adults infiltrated the hobby, the card industry adapted - more companies were created to appeal to different tastes, rookie cards became the craze, and in came the insert era of the 1990s. The insert era basically took the idea of the rookie card craze and magnified it 100 times - it was basically a form of gambling. Unless an adult figure in the household collected cards, kids generally didnt collect - or at least didnt do so in the same way kids collected pre 1980. the advent of video games and a vast array of child and adolescent centric forms of leisure/distraction also became big factors, as did the increased popularity of other sports that had less "roots" in card collecting, such as football and basketball. as this was happening, pre war cards became much more prominent. with online auctions, which increased the ability to purchase vintage cards, pre war card collecting became a much more viable option of card collecting for a contemporary male adult seeking to reenter the hobby, but with no interest in collecting today's cards and mild interest in collecting cards of his youth.

collectors born in the 70s, 80s and 90s typically reenter the hobby after an extended period off, which usually corresponds to college, young adulthood, the establishment of a career, starting a family, and, most importantly, the accumulation of personal income. they start to look at cards of their youth - collect the rookie cards of their era that theyve always wanted - but, eventually find little satisfaction with the general mass availability of these cards. they eventually find their way into post war cards - and then finally into prewar, which "feels" more like a hobby rooted in intrinsic rather than purely financial value (as modern card collecting may feel like) since it's vintage, rooted in americana and the history of the sport, and generally looks like art.

the hobby isnt dead. but, it sure aint hell what it looked like 30+ years ago.

Last edited by majordanby; 07-17-2015 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 07-17-2015, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majordanby View Post
starting in the 1950s, baseball card collecting was largely something children and youth did. adults rarely ventured into card collecting as it was marketed towards and culturally accepted as a kid's hobby. baseball card collecting dramatically changed in the 80s as it became more of older young and middle aged men pursuing junk wax to make a profit. cards became more like assets - and as adults infiltrated the hobby, the card industry adapted - more companies were created to appeal to different tastes, rookie cards became the craze, and in came the insert era of the 1990s. The insert era basically took the idea of the rookie card craze and magnified it 100 times - it was basically a form of gambling. Unless an adult figure in the household collected cards, kids generally didnt collect - or at least didnt do so in the same way kids collected pre 1980. the advent of video games and a vast array of child and adolescent centric forms of leisure/distraction also became big factors, as did the increased popularity of other sports that had less "roots" in card collecting, such as football and basketball. as this was happening, pre war cards became much more prominent. with online auctions, which increased the ability to purchase vintage cards, pre war card collecting became a much more viable option of card collecting for a contemporary male adult seeking to reenter the hobby, but with no interest in collecting today's cards and mild interest in collecting cards of his youth.

collectors born in the 70s, 80s and 90s typically reenter the hobby after an extended period off, which usually corresponds to college, young adulthood, the establishment of a career, starting a family, and, most importantly, the accumulation of personal income. they start to look at cards of their youth - collect the rookie cards of their era that theyve always wanted - but, eventually find little satisfaction with the general mass availability of these cards. they eventually find their way into post war cards - and then finally into prewar, which "feels" more like a hobby rooted in intrinsic rather than purely financial value (as modern card collecting may feel like) since it's vintage, rooted in americana and the history of the sport, and generally looks like art.

the hobby isnt dead. but, it sure aint hell what it looked like 30+ years ago.
I think card collecting became a pure adult only thing only in the late 90s. I was in elementary school from 1991 until 1995 and I remember petty much every kid had baseball cards. At least every kid who played sports. I stopped collecting in about '97 or so (when I was 14) because hardly anyone else I knew of my friends still collected any more.

Also, I think some sets will survive as americana in the same was pre WW1 cards have now. For instance I see 1993 Finest Refractors as just as americana as 1952 topps and T-206.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:22 AM
majordanby majordanby is offline
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I think card collecting became a pure adult only thing only in the late 90s
Pure adult? Sure. The transition wasnt immediate. But, certainly you cant disagree that the difference between the 80s and the era before was incredibly stark. The 80s was the period where the hobby began its descent into a largely an adult oriented pursuit. In the 90s, perhaps that descent reached its nadir.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:50 AM
tulsaboy tulsaboy is offline
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As a late 30's collector, I just focus on what makes me happy. Usually that is 1986 Topps. Almost all of the 1980's Topps sets cause some sort of visceral reaction in me, rooted in childhood memories. They aren't the most valuable sets, they aren't the nicest looking sets, and they had none of the "valuable" inserts or parallel sets- but they were fun to collect, and still are. I keep stashes of unopened 1986 Topps baseball around and open then a pack or two at a time, over a period of months. And yes, I keep the cards and sort them, make a checklist, and work towards completing my set- just like I did 29 years ago. It just makes it fun. I could not care less about more modern cards.
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  #29  
Old 07-28-2015, 12:20 PM
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I turned 40 this year, collected Topps cards from 83-89 then sold a huge box of all those cards for peanuts when I went to college.

I didn't start collecting again until last year. Maybe it was turning 40 and feeling nostalgic. I took to collecting Topps Red Sox from 52-89. I spent way more than I should have and made plenty of mistakes overpaying.

There are two things that may drive me away : the card grading racket and the overinflation of newer serial # cards. Both are pretty much the only way to have much hope of passing along a collection worth more than I paid for it, which is really the only way I can justify spending the money right now.

For example, Rafael Devers may be a player my daughter grows up watching. He could be a star, he could flop. Still, I'd like to get his card and hang on to it, but his serial number cards are already hundreds to thousands of dollars. Packs are $5. It's become a form of gambling rather than collecting.

I could get some vintage stars, buy raw and have them graded at $17 a pop plus absurd shipping to gamble my Ted Williams is a PSA 6 and not come back a 4. Otherwise, I've thrown away money like I do buying packs.

Someday I may be comfortable enough not to worry about the costs, but the reality is most of us have to.


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Last edited by granite75; 07-28-2015 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 08-02-2015, 08:11 AM
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As a 35 year old, my first memories of cards included going to the corner store and buying 87 topps wax packs of baseball and football (I remember being excited after finding a Bo Jackson 'Future Stars' card of which I still have today - although a little roughed up). As a young kid I didn't care, or even understand, about equating a card with a monetary value. I simply loved the designs and photos of my favorite players (dale murphy at the time). By the early 90's when I was in middle school, kids were trading and buying inserts, scouring the becket price guides like wall street investors. It slowly evolved into valuing the cards because of their...um...value. I remember the 1989 upper deck set that I got for Xmas and watching the Griffey climb in value each month in my becket magazines.

I stopped collecting around 1998. Years later when I got back into the hobby I was amazed at the amount of 'products' that were available, but It just wasn't the same. Kids just don't collect cards as we used to. I recall walking through any major retail store and seeing rack packs and boxes lining the toy section. Now they are put aside next to the cash registers just about anywhere you go. Baseball card promotions could be found everywhere (gas stations, grocery stores, fast food restaurants, cereal boxes, etc.).

These days packs retail packs are priced beyond belief base cards are, for the most part, thrown aside like the wrapper itself as collectors desperately look for a hit.

I believe kids will always collect tangible stuff. But these days with video games, electronics, smart phones, I can understand why cardboard doesn't look as appealing, especially since it cost so much. Also, as scary as it is, more and more kids don't even know who Mickey Mantle was, let alone guys like Mays and Koufax. I am a teacher so I see it first hand every day.

As for me, I collect what I like and treat it only as a hobby. Should that hobby die off (much like stamp collecting) then the silver lining will be cheaper cards that I am looking for.
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:11 AM
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These days packs retail packs are priced beyond belief base cards are, for the most part, thrown aside like the wrapper itself as collectors desperately look for a hit.
I've noticed this as well. It makes me wonder.... in 30 years when the natural cycle of collecting comes back around for this generation, will base cards hold more appeal and value simply because everyone just threw them out when they ripped the packs as a kid?

Sounds bizarre, I know. But it's always the things that no one saw coming that cause such a stir.

And I say this as someone who just threw out two 5,000 ct. boxes of 2010-2014 Bowman/Bowman Chrome base cards about a month ago.
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  #32  
Old 08-03-2015, 09:27 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by Sierra79 View Post
As a 35 year old, my first memories of cards included going to the corner store and buying 87 topps wax packs of baseball and football (I remember being excited after finding a Bo Jackson 'Future Stars' card of which I still have today - although a little roughed up). As a young kid I didn't care, or even understand, about equating a card with a monetary value. I simply loved the designs and photos of my favorite players (dale murphy at the time). By the early 90's when I was in middle school, kids were trading and buying inserts, scouring the becket price guides like wall street investors. It slowly evolved into valuing the cards because of their...um...value. I remember the 1989 upper deck set that I got for Xmas and watching the Griffey climb in value each month in my becket magazines.

I stopped collecting around 1998. Years later when I got back into the hobby I was amazed at the amount of 'products' that were available, but It just wasn't the same. Kids just don't collect cards as we used to. I recall walking through any major retail store and seeing rack packs and boxes lining the toy section. Now they are put aside next to the cash registers just about anywhere you go. Baseball card promotions could be found everywhere (gas stations, grocery stores, fast food restaurants, cereal boxes, etc.).

These days packs retail packs are priced beyond belief base cards are, for the most part, thrown aside like the wrapper itself as collectors desperately look for a hit.

I believe kids will always collect tangible stuff. But these days with video games, electronics, smart phones, I can understand why cardboard doesn't look as appealing, especially since it cost so much. Also, as scary as it is, more and more kids don't even know who Mickey Mantle was, let alone guys like Mays and Koufax. I am a teacher so I see it first hand every day.

As for me, I collect what I like and treat it only as a hobby. Should that hobby die off (much like stamp collecting) then the silver lining will be cheaper cards that I am looking for.
Time to collect graded Atari videogame cartridges.


(When make the last post for days that ends the thread.., i try to be the closer, so going for the save)

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-03-2015 at 02:56 PM.
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  #33  
Old 08-07-2015, 08:25 AM
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I collected "new" product from 1975 to 1983, with the "apex" of my collection in the 1977-79 range; i.e. collecting and building sets from packs. I remember attending my first local baseball card show in 1979 at the Twin 60s Inn in Dallas and was introduced to 1933 Goudey cards and 1951 Bowman cards. I remember being fascinated with the artwork of those cards and have slowly over time started to collect those (especially the Bowman "art" cards of 1950, 1951, 1952) over the years. By 1984, I was essentially "out" of the hobby, and did not start back until 1989-90, in which I tried to buy one set for each year for the years I had missed (1985-90). I have since sold those sets.

Regarding adult vs. kids hobby, I think it is mostly for adults now. I don't see a lot of kids into the hobby. Heaven knows I can't really get my sons interested in baseball cards (the Pokemon and Star Wars craze is still big for them) other than a pack here or there. In fact, I was in the local baseball card shop this week on a Wednesday, which happens to be "trade" day at the shop. It was the first time I had been there on a Wednesday, and there were four gentlemen crowded around a table trading and talking. They were older than me (I'm 48), and as I perused the shop, I listened in on the conversation. They were busy trading/buying new product, with an emphasis on Topps Allen & Ginter cards. They were also buying cases/boxes of product, and the emphasis was on the "pulls." My mind went back to the early days of Baseball Card magazine in 1981 which contained the first articles of baseball cards as an investment, and each issue devoted a section to "what's hot, what's not" in terms of rookie cards and investments. I think that may have been the point (early-to-mid 1980s) that baseball cards became an adult hobby rather than geared towards kids, at least in my mind.

I don't buy modern product anymore. I tried it on and off for a few years in an effort to get back into the hobby. I come from the old way of collecting by building sets, but I found that set building is cost prohibitive now, what with inserts, parallels, etc., etc. And now I just collect vintage, and if I want the thrill of opening up packs or a box of cards, I collect new Japanese baseball cards. It's all about the hobby to me. With few exceptions (counted on one hand), every card or set I've sold from my collection over the years has been at a loss, so to me, it's a hobby.
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  #34  
Old 08-07-2015, 09:17 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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I collected "new" product from 1975 to 1983, with the "apex" of my collection in the 1977-79 range; i.e. collecting and building sets from packs. I remember attending my first local baseball card show in 1979 at the Twin 60s Inn in Dallas and was introduced to 1933 Goudey cards and 1951 Bowman cards. I remember being fascinated with the artwork of those cards and have slowly over time started to collect those (especially the Bowman "art" cards of 1950, 1951, 1952) over the years. By 1984, I was essentially "out" of the hobby, and did not start back until 1989-90, in which I tried to buy one set for each year for the years I had missed (1985-90). I have since sold those sets.

Regarding adult vs. kids hobby, I think it is mostly for adults now. I don't see a lot of kids into the hobby. Heaven knows I can't really get my sons interested in baseball cards (the Pokemon and Star Wars craze is still big for them) other than a pack here or there. In fact, I was in the local baseball card shop this week on a Wednesday, which happens to be "trade" day at the shop. It was the first time I had been there on a Wednesday, and there were four gentlemen crowded around a table trading and talking. They were older than me (I'm 48), and as I perused the shop, I listened in on the conversation. They were busy trading/buying new product, with an emphasis on Topps Allen & Ginter cards. They were also buying cases/boxes of product, and the emphasis was on the "pulls." My mind went back to the early days of Baseball Card magazine in 1981 which contained the first articles of baseball cards as an investment, and each issue devoted a section to "what's hot, what's not" in terms of rookie cards and investments. I think that may have been the point (early-to-mid 1980s) that baseball cards became an adult hobby rather than geared towards kids, at least in my mind.

I don't buy modern product anymore. I tried it on and off for a few years in an effort to get back into the hobby. I come from the old way of collecting by building sets, but I found that set building is cost prohibitive now, what with inserts, parallels, etc., etc. And now I just collect vintage, and if I want the thrill of opening up packs or a box of cards, I collect new Japanese baseball cards. It's all about the hobby to me. With few exceptions (counted on one hand), every card or set I've sold from my collection over the years has been at a loss, so to me, it's a hobby.
I agree.....hits a hobby.....can also buy lottery tickets and lose a dollar for nothing instead of paying 8 dollars for pack trying to get a 200 dollar card.......at least you get some cards......lots of hobbys involve buying things that you can only resale and a small fraction of the cost .....not sure why everyone is arguing about younger kids being interested....all in all its an aging hobby for sure.......what the true problem is about most of the cards is problems with cards in general.. though baseball is becoming less and less popular..even the real popular sports like football and basketball do not have kids interested in cards so its not just baseball....its the hobby in general


-sucks that now get a blown save...(no longer the last post but maybe can get the 'w')

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-07-2015 at 09:23 AM.
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  #35  
Old 08-08-2015, 08:27 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
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Arthur-- coming from you, that is no more bizarre than the other stuff you say
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  #36  
Old 08-08-2015, 02:49 PM
mrmopar mrmopar is offline
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it seems like every couple of days or weeks, I see someone proclaim that they collect new but have recently discovered the joy of vintage and will start to collect it as well. I don't think the hobby ever dies. I was oblivious to the sport and collecting in general when I started, but it got me interested in baseball and the history as well. I was buying packs of 1978 Topps, but i was also learning about the 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond as well. It didn't hurt that there were an abundance of collector sets from TCMA, Renata Galasso, CCC and others to open my young eyes to players who had long since retired.

Now days, you got younger collectors pulling long retired players out of their packs of retro-type issues and those names become familiar to them, but they are usually the best of the best players in these sets and the new collectors may not know the middle and lower tier players from the same era, but eventually they may take that leap and start to learn.

To me it is funny to see someone say they collect cards and maybe have never heard of a player like Herb Pennock or Bill Mazeroski, but then I have to remember that maybe they have not made that step yet to learn about players who came before Ripken, Griffey, Jeter, Pujols and Trout. Of course, i am the opposite now. I know the older players, but you can read a thread about some new touted prospect and I'll say"WHO?".
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:58 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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it seems like every couple of days or weeks, I see someone proclaim that they collect new but have recently discovered the joy of vintage and will start to collect it as well. I don't think the hobby ever dies. I was oblivious to the sport and collecting in general when I started, but it got me interested in baseball and the history as well. I was buying packs of 1978 Topps, but i was also learning about the 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond as well. It didn't hurt that there were an abundance of collector sets from TCMA, Renata Galasso, CCC and others to open my young eyes to players who had long since retired.

Now days, you got younger collectors pulling long retired players out of their packs of retro-type issues and those names become familiar to them, but they are usually the best of the best players in these sets and the new collectors may not know the middle and lower tier players from the same era, but eventually they may take that leap and start to learn.



To me it is funny to see someone say they collect cards and maybe have never heard of a player like Herb Pennock or Bill Mazeroski, but then I have to remember that maybe they have not made that step yet to learn about players who came before Ripken, Griffey, Jeter, Pujols and Trout. Of course, i am the opposite now. I know the older players, but you can read a thread about some new touted prospect and I'll say"WHO?".
right those middle guys none HOFs ...as the generations that collect them don't know who they are..the names don't really matter much anymore..its the POP.....I bought a bunch fo 1952s and once in awhile there would be a high pop for the grade with more bidding then I expected...id look up the player and see that player was a real good popular player (like Smoky Burgess), but know full well that the high bidders grew up watching that player......other popular players in the 70s are already commons like George Foster....its all about POP...doesnt matter if it was George Foster or John Jones (just made up a name) you will see the bidding on ebay reflect POP count more than popularity of that player who was an all star in their day but since they aren't an upper tier player/HOF nobody will pay the preimium as the years go by...learning about that type of player 30 years later isn't going to make those buyers pay a premium..

..

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-08-2015 at 09:59 PM.
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  #38  
Old 08-09-2015, 11:51 AM
mrmopar mrmopar is offline
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I think grading is a whole other discussion that parallels collecting, but really stands alone as well. I don't buy graded cards specifically, so I am probably not best qualified to comment. However, it seems to be about building sets and if a card is difficult for whatever reason (shorter printing, difficult to find w/o a print flaw, popular player), then it will always sell for more regardless and people will be looking for it. Doesn't matter if it is Smokey Burgess, Dick Kryhoski or Willie Mays.

Back to collecting and the common man vs the well know HOFers: I know that me personally, I have little interest in plain commons unless they are part of a category that I like. That might be a team set (Dodgers, for example) or a special subset card like a league leader, playoff, multi-player , turn back the clock, etc. Although they may be commons in everyone else's eyes, I will always look at a card of someone like Tony Oliva or George Foster (to use your example) as something better than a common. I learned of these players through watching them play, reading about them in books or newspapers or sometimes just reviewing statistics on the back of cards or on baseball reference. I've been doing it since I started collecting, as I remember sifting through boxes of 1950s cards looking for key stats to indicate a player I may not have otherwise heard of was an OK player, like maybe he hit 30+ home runs or batted .300 that year. Gus Triandos makes a fine example of that type of method for me. He was a 3 time AS and hit 30 home runs once. Certainly not a household name, but to me, he is not a common.

When it comes to autographs, which is what I currently enjoy collecting the most, the only way I will add a "true" common to my collection is if he is on one of those special cards I mentioned before or on rare occasions has some great photo that catches my eye. Shooty Babbit and Stubby Clapp are two examples. How can I not have them represented in my collection with names like those? However, I will always seek out guys who are middle ground players because they were better than the average career substitute/bench warmer player.

When I dump boxes of commons, you can bet they are stripped and scrubbed so well that nobody is finding anything worthwhile in there.
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