Hey, pennant guys

[Fballguy]

No issues at all with this one.

I started by working from the back of the pennant and I tried to use as little bleach as possible to avoid problems.

Started with 90/10 mix just to see what would happen. Didn't have much effect on the bad spots but did whiten the background some.

Then I increased to about 70/30 and continued to work on the back. I let 30 minutes to an hour go by between each spraying so I could assess the progress. I probably sprayed it six or more times over the course of the day. This got the pennant pretty white, but several trouble spots remained.

By now I was fairly confident that the paint wasn't going to run so I turned the pennant over and hit the trouble spots directly...which included hitting the graphics. I tried to do that sparingly but it couldn't be avoided.

Finally, I had to strengthen the mixture to about 50/50 to get those sports on the tip to say uncle. I didn't have to spray the 50/50 mixture near the paint luckily.

Before I went to bed I sprayed the pennant with water to rinse off any excess bleach and I let it sit wet over night. It was nice and bright the next morning.

Sandwiched it between some towels to let dry for a few hours, then hit it with a warm iron.

Mission accomplished.

[Bumpus Jones]

Hey Rob. Do you hang or suspend the pennant while doing this or lay it flat? Also, do you mask off the areas you don't want hit with spray at all? Thanks.

[ooo-ribay]

Hey, Kyle, aka pennant maker researcher extraordinaire -

I'm pretty sure I showed this "WC" mark on my 1962 picture pennant (left of photo). I was re-organizing my pennants the other day and found the same WC on a few more. The last one pictured shows a batter in un-enclosed Candlestick but I also found the same mark on similar pennants of post-enclosure Candlestick (1970). Any ideas? A buddy says "Wincraft" but I think we ruled that out.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

Hey Rob. Do you hang or suspend the pennant while doing this or lay it flat? Also, do you mask off the areas you don't want hit with spray at all? Thanks.

You probably meant the other Rob, but I'm a bleacher, too.

I use painter's tape to both hang mine and protect the spine. The spine would obviously bleach out otherwise. I have never masked off areas....I think you would get a noticeable line. I soak my pennants and the bleach would probably leach even I masked off an area. I suppose it might work with a very light misting.

[ooo-ribay]

Here's one I forgot I had. Vintage? Repro? Maybe a companion to one of those BF3 type mini sets?

[matty39]

That looks like a Mitchell and Ness repro of a 1936 BF3 premium.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Stellar work, Rob!

Thanks Rob.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

Hey Rob. Do you hang or suspend the pennant while doing this or lay it flat? Also, do you mask off the areas you don't want hit with spray at all? Thanks.

Here's a pic of the entire operation! Just lay the pennant face down and tape the wide end to keep it from sliding.

Yes...I would mask completely any areas you didn't want hit with bleach. The pennants I've bleached typically don't have any areas like that lol.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by matty39

That looks like a Mitchell and Ness repro of a 1936 BF3 premium.

I think you’re probably right. It’s in way too good of shape to be old.

[perezfan]

Yup... It's definitely the M&N Repro.

[Bumpus Jones]

Thanks for the tips fellas.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Awesome pickups, Jason! Love them both.... Had the Yankee Pennant many years ago, and it's one of those I truly regret parting with.

The Minnesota Pennant is a stunner. I know it's from the teens... Is it oversized? Two GREAT pickups!

The Gophers pennant is actually only about 26 inches. I expected it to be the typical oversize, but was kind of surprised when it was smaller. I have not seen anything like this in that size and it has not been altered. Who knows.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Yup... It's definitely the M&N Repro.

Of a BF3?

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Of a BF3?

It's a repro

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Hey, Kyle, aka pennant maker researcher extraordinaire -

I'm pretty sure I showed this "WC" mark on my 1962 picture pennant (left of photo). I was re-organizing my pennants the other day and found the same WC on a few more. The last one pictured shows a batter in un-enclosed Candlestick but I also found the same mark on similar pennants of post-enclosure Candlestick (1970). Any ideas? A buddy says "Wincraft" but I think we ruled that out.

Rob:

I think the consensus when we last discussed the first two pennants you showed was that Trench made these; and, this "WC" mark was likely a concessionaire's mark. Although we were stumped as to precisely who this concessionaire was.

We found at least one other pennant--a Univ. of California stadium pennant featuring Memorial Stadium, I recall--that also had a similar "WC" mark. It too appeared to be by Trench. So we speculated that WC must have been a San Francisco Bay area concessionaire and/or retailer that sold Trench pennants.

This new/third pennant you discovered is really interesting. Here, the "WC" mark is quite hidden within the artwork (on the batter's knee). I struggled to find it. That's making me re-consider things.... Although, I can think of no pennant manufacturer that went by these initials in the 1960s.

The problem with WinCraft is they didn't come to exist until 1961. And, when it began, it was reportedly a three-person company specializing in buttons and pom-poms for local high schools in Minnesota. So if "WC" on your '62 Giants pennant stood for WinCraft, we'd have to believe they made the astronomical leap from Winona, MN high school buttons to San Francisco Giant pennants, within a year's time.

Which seems unlikely.

I will cover ASCO/WinCraft next on Pennant Fever. Maybe I'll learn more about their early days to be able to shed some new light on this.

[baseball tourist]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Rob:

I think the consensus when we last discussed the first two pennants you showed was that Trench made these; and, this "WC" mark was likely a concessionaire's mark. Although we were stumped as to precisely who this concessionaire was.

We found at least one other pennant--a Univ. of California stadium pennant featuring Memorial Stadium, I recall--that also had a similar "WC" mark. It too appeared to be by Trench. So we speculated that WC must have been a San Francisco Bay area concessionaire and/or retailer that sold Trench pennants.

This new/third pennant you discovered is really interesting. Here, the "WC" mark is quite hidden within the artwork (on the batter's knee). I struggled to find it. That's making me re-consider things.... Although, I can think of no pennant manufacturer that went by these initials in the 1960s.

The problem with WinCraft is they didn't come to exist until 1961. And, when it began, it was reportedly a three-person company specializing in buttons and pom-poms for local high schools in Minnesota. So if "WC" on your '62 Giants pennant stood for WinCraft, we'd have to believe they made the astronomical leap from Winona, MN high school buttons to San Francisco Giant pennants, within a year's time.

Which seems unlikely.

I will cover ASCO/WinCraft next on Pennant Fever. Maybe I'll learn more about their early days to be able to shed some new light on this.

mm

Could “WC” be the illustrators initials?

[bocca001]

I have some of those same pennants with no WC, so I don't think that it is the illustrator.

[Fballguy]

Here's that Cal pennant...only minus the WC.

[murphusa]

Small antique shows are sometimes better than the big shows

$10 lot

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by murphusa

Small antique shows are sometimes better than the big shows

$10 lot

Can’t beat that Yankees pennant for 10 bucks!

[ggary]

I have a few Lakers pennants from I think from the 1960's. Can anyone show what other pre-1970 Lakers pennants there are to collect?

[ooo-ribay]

White guys in short shorts? Gotta be the 60’s!

[perezfan]

Yes... Those two on the left might be the only ones out there from the 1960s. There are not many variations, and I cannot think of any others off the top of my head.

The third one is definitely 1970s. I know because we moved there in 1971, and attended our first Lakers Game at the Forum in '72... which is the year I bought this one at the game. I believe they carried that same style through to at least 1975 or '76. You can easily see it's a bit larger, and think you'll notice the felt material is different from the two 1960s pennants.

Looks like all 3 of yours are in fantastic condition... Great stuff!

[Fballguy]

Love the one in the middle. Don't think I've ever seen it.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ggary

I have a few Lakers pennants from I think from the 1960's. Can anyone show what other pre-1970 Lakers pennants there are to collect?

Oh man, three of my favorites! Thanks for sharing. The first comes from the Sports Arena days, before the Lakers moved to Inglewood in '67. It's pretty rare. The second one is likely from the late 1960s. It was made in several different color schemes: one of purple felt with white lettering; another with blue felt and gold lettering. I have always suspected these other variants came from the early to mid-1960s, when the team colors had not matured to the purple and gold we know today. Your version is purple and gold so it's probably from the late 1960s, after Jack Kent Cooke changed the team colors and moved the team to the Forum.

I've always loved that third pennant, too. It is way more common because, by 1970, professional basketball had caught on in Los Angeles and the Lakers were quite popular. But, go back ten years and that simply wasn't the case when they first arrived from Minneapolis in 1960; hence the scarcity of early 1960-era Lakers pennants.

There's one other style from the early 1960s that was made for several NBA teams, including the Lakers. It is quite rare and looks like this:

[Fballguy]

There has to be a Minneapolis Lakers pennant out there somewhere, right???

[Fballguy]

Hey Kyle...Any idea who made this one?



Currently available in the Hake's Auction being promoted here now. Bid up to $181 so far.

Would look great in any Nazi themed man cave.

[perezfan]

403,000 views... and I think Rob may have just killed the longest running thread on the Memorabilia Side!

[Fballguy]

Wasn't even thinking that I just outed the auction. Sorry about that. Though I doubt anyone will complain openly.

[Birderdj]

Two of my more recent pickups. Always looking for Buffalo sports pennants. If anyone has anything they’re looking to sell or trade, message me.


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[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

There has to be a Minneapolis Lakers pennant out there somewhere, right???

No. I have seen one in my collecting career and I have buyers who ask me yearly. In fact, if anyone has one or knows of one, I am your buyer. I have been looking for my personal collection for a long long time.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Hey Kyle...Any idea who made this one?



Currently available in the Hake's Auction being promoted here now. Bid up to $181 so far.

Would look great in any Nazi themed man cave.

No, no idea who made this....

Or, who would want it.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Birderdj

Two of my more recent pickups. Always looking for Buffalo sports pennants. If anyone has anything they’re looking to sell or trade, message me.

Those are both great! What era(s) are they?

[Fballguy]

The Bisons football is from 1946. They were an AAFC team that became the first version of the Buffalo Bills. No relation to the current version.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

The Bisons football is from 1946. They were an AAFC team that became the first version of the Buffalo Bills. No relation to the current version.

Thanks, Rob. With all our new knowledge, can we guess the maker?

I love how the hockey Bisons ripped off the Pepsi logo!

[Birderdj]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Thanks, Rob. With all our new knowledge, can we guess the maker?



I love how the hockey Bisons ripped off the Pepsi logo!

The team's unusual logo stems from the Bisons being purchased in 1956 by the owner of the local franchise of Pepsi-Cola, Ruby Pastor, who changed the team's colors and logo to reflect the soft drink company. Use one business to promote the other.
My understanding is the Bisons pennant was only sold at Hershey Arena in the 60s, and came in a few different colors (I’ve seen orange, green, and blue). They did different designs for each AHL team at the time, but certainly Hershey Bears pennants in this style are most common.

Here’s a few other examples:






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[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Birderdj

For some reason, the Bisons hockey reminds me of this one. Probably because of the skater/batter and net/fielder.

[perezfan]

Great stuff everyone...

The bleaching of the Reds Pennant was a mild success, I suppose. I could've done better with a bit more patience, I think. To Rob's point, the pennant continued to whiten after I was done bleaching... so I probably went a little too heavy, too soon.

The red graphics began to run, and then it was a quick rush to rinse it clean. If I went slower, the red might not have run at all. But the colored stains were still quite visible, so I kept at it. Had I stopped earlier, it may have whitened enough on its own (without bleeding).

But overall it looks significantly better. Here's the "before" (which looked far worse in person than on eBay....)

[perezfan]

And the "after"...

[ooo-ribay]

I’d say “significantly better” is an understatement. Welcome to the Bleach Club!

[Tigerden]

Mark - Great job on the pennant cleaning! A significant improvement. Makes me wonder if you can use a cue tip to bleach off some of the red around the letters. Too bad we can’t just drop these off to the dry cleaners!

[Fballguy]

Hey Mark...I'd definitely take the "after". Nice job. Red for some reason is unpredictable. It's the only color I've seen run. But it still looks way better now than it did in "before".

And yes....absolutely..You can do touch ups with a Q-Tip to make it look even better. If you don't have steady hands, use a divider like an empty semi rigid card sleeve to create a barrier between the bleeding and the graphics. Then dab away with a Q-Tip in the other hand. I'd use pure bleach for the touch ups.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Hey Mark...I'd definitely take the "after". Nice job. Red for some reason is unpredictable. It's the only color I've seen run. But it still looks way better now than it did in "before".

And yes....absolutely..You can do touch ups with a Q-Tip to make it look even better. If you don't have steady hands, use a divider like an empty semi rigid card sleeve to create a barrier between the bleeding and the graphics. Then dab away with a Q-Tip in the other hand. I'd use pure bleach for the touch ups.

I might just give that a try.... thanks all!

[Fballguy]

Thought I'd share this agonizing eBay result. Agonizing because I wasn't the buyer. Anyone here want to take credit for the steal of 2019 thus far?

[ooo-ribay]

Shipping was kind of high.

I feel your pain, Rob. It’s like when I missed the Giants/d**gers Opening Day 1958 you showed me. Quit looking at completed results!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Shipping was kind of high.

I feel your pain, Rob. It’s like when I missed the Giants/d**gers Opening Day 1958 you showed me. Quit looking at completed results!

Yeah...Damn that guy for trying to sneak a little extra profit into the shipping charge.

I hear you man...I'm a glutton for punishment. I can't resist.

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

No. I have seen one in my collecting career and I have buyers who ask me yearly. In fact, if anyone has one or knows of one, I am your buyer. I have been looking for my personal collection for a long long time.

This amazes me...have you ever seen a Minneapolis Muskies or Pipers pennant?


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[Tigerden]

The Raiders pennant was a steal. I wonder how it fell under the radar. That pennant always generates lot of interest and commands serious prices for an early 60’s pennant.

[Fballguy]

At least there's this. Ebay is so helpful...

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by erikc21

This amazes me...have you ever seen a Minneapolis Muskies or Pipers pennant?


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Nope