Overland Candy - DATE of ISSUE challenge - 1936-1943??

[h2oya311]

I am not one to rock the boat, and perhaps this has been addressed before, but I think the date of issue for Overland Candy extended to at least 1939 (and likely 1940).

On the Oldcardboad site, the last bullet says: "1938 year of issue for set is based on card of Joe Gordon."

Well, here's the Gordon I own:



As you can see, the text notes Gordon's prowess at the plate, stating: "Last season he batted in 111 runs, including 28 home runs." He did this in 1939!!!

So, the issue date of Joe Gordon must have been after the 1939 season was finalized (unless Nostradomus was employed by Overland Candy Corp.). The use of the term "last season" implies that this was produced in 1940.

I'd be interested to see if the text on other player wrappers could help us narrow the gap for the range of dates this issue was actually distributed.

The Fabian Kowalik wrapper shown on Oldcardboard would almost certainly date the issue to 1936 or 1937. they talk about the Cubs wanting him, but he has a Philadelphia Phillies hat on (both are teams he played for in '36). He never played another Major League game after the 1936 season. He did toil in the Minor Leagues from '37-39 playin for Buffalo if the International League. Maybe his wrapper was issued at a later date too, although his stats certainly wouldn't support it!! Interestingly, Kowalik's wrapper has no ingredients listed, while Gordon does.

Anyone else have something they can contribute??

[DaveW]

Very interesting - I love this kind of stuff.
There are some Overland Candy wrappers on Ebay now that prove your claim.
There is a Hank Greenberg one that states "NOW IN THE ARMY" - he joined the Army in 1942.
There is also a Harland Clift one that says he is currently 30 years old. He was born in August of 1912.
So these 2 were issued in 1942 at the earliest, maybe even 1943.
- Dave

[h2oya311]

Just found a Frank Pytlak (Boston Red Sox catcher) wrapper (w/ ingredients) on the 'Bay. Pytlak didn't begin playing for the Sox until the 1941 season!! This now means this set was issued across even more years than originally thought!!

Interestingly enough, the Greenberg wrapper (w/ ingredients) which mentions stats from '35, has an extra bit of text that states: "NOW IN THE ARMY", which happened in 1942 from what I can tell, although technically he was in the Air Force.

I also found a Harlond Clift wrapper which says: "Clift is 30 years old". Umm, that was in 1942!!!!

With all these anomolies, I'd be surprised if this hasn't come up before.

[h2oya311]

Thanks Dave, I found the same ones...good investigative work!!

[conor912]

Derek, That's a great looking 1. Why is it not a better grade do you think?

[glchen]

All of the ones that I've owned in the past don't give definitive infos on the date issued like the Gordon one. (Currently, I only have the Gehrig one left.)

[leftygrove10]

Here is the Grove. Funny thing is, he never won 20 games in each year for a stretch of 8 seasons. I don't know where that stat came from. And all of these wrappers state their height and weight. Too bad you can't use that to pin down the year. I know Lefty put on weight late in his career and weighed 190 rather than the 175 that is often quoted for earlier in his career.

It is also annoys me a little that he is shown in an Athletics hat, but the team name under his name is the Red Sox.

Here are his statistics from Baseball Reference....

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...rovele01.shtml

[h2oya311]

Do any players have wrappers issued with and without ingredients?? I still think the early wrappers don't have ingredients and the later ones do.

At this point I think we're definitively at 1936-1942 as year of issue, with 1936-1943 as a plausible date range. Perhaps we can narrow down the w/ and w/out ingredients variations before all is said and done. It's tough with so many trimmed ones out there.

[leftygrove10]

Legendary Auctions auctioned a lot of these back in May 2011. See the link below. Perhaps these will help you pin down the year.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...her-Hall-of-Fa

[toppcat]

That Gehrig is super nice for a 10!

[Leon]

Interesting stuff, guys. I never took notice of the different types of these wrappers. None of the four of these (in this post) have the ingredients on them. These are all approximately the same size but the scans aren't. The Appling and maybe the Foxx is trimmed. I am not a condition freak but want them to look decent. The years debate is a good one too. Seems like the dating of R301 might need to be changed in the guides?

[ValKehl]

My only example, "Schoolboy" Rowe, doesn't shed any light on the issue date. But, I would be glad to trade this one for a Washington player in similar condition.
Val

[glchen]

One note from the Fabian Kowalik wrapper in Leon's post. From baseball reference, it seems to point out that wrapper was issued around 1936 since 1936 was Kowalik's last year in the major leagues. In addition, in 1936, he was traded from the Cubs to Philadelphia to Boston (NL). So the "P" on his cap *may* signify the trade to Philadelphia.

[h2oya311]

Gary - thanks for repeating what I said about Kowalik...

Dates are definitely from 1936-1942 at this point...

[glchen]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Gary - thanks for repeating what I said about Kowalik...

Dates are definitely from 1936-1942 at this point...

Doh, I'm an idiot. Next time, I need to at least finish reading the first post before posting something. And for a while there, I was congratulating myself for my "detective" work!

[oaks1912]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the article written on Overland Candy wrappers by the late Gerry Glasser. This article was published in 1999 in VCBC and was / is the most comprehensive article to date on the issue. Gerry suggested a 1936-1942 range, not necessarily in continuos production. Undoubtedly there have been player and variation additions in the past 14 years based on post-article finds but, to my knowledge / recollection an updated article hasn't been written

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by oaks1912

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the article written on Overland Candy wrappers by the late Gerry Glasser. This article was published in 1999 in VCBC and was / is the most comprehensive article to date on the issue. Gerry suggested a 1936-1942 range, not necessarily in continuos production. Undoubtedly there have been player and variation additions in the past 14 years based on post-article finds but, to my knowledge / recollection an updated article hasn't been written

I'll have to try to find that article. I was a bit surprised that I, with my whopping Overland Candy collection of ONE, would be the first to notice the date inconsistency! Glad to know some real research has already taken place on the matter.

I'm surprised though that none of the guides or key card collecting websites have made the date of issue updates based on Mr. Glasser's work.