New Clemente 3000 hit photo?

[71buc]

I recently purchased this image. The seller reported that it is a photo of Clemente driving his 3000th hit. I asked him about its origin and how he could be certain that the photo depicted the moment he attributed to it. He responded,” I was there with my father (who took the photo) on the day of the 3,000th hit. I probably have the original 35mm slide, along with others”. I am communicating with the seller to purchase the slides in question.

I recently read the book Miracle Ball: My Hunt for the Shot Heard 'Round the World http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Ball-H.../dp/0307452697 and was fascinated by the attempt to find the famous ball through the use of photographic studies. It is a great read. Nonetheless, the book inspired me to see if I could match this photo to the event it supposedly records.

The first photos show how the image arrived in the mail. It was professionally framed at a custom frame shop in Pittsburgh. The frame is vintage. When I removed the 5X7 image I found that it had been secured with an adhesive to a backing board. Due to this I cannot see the reverse. Although I cannot be certain, judging by the frame’s construction and the apparent age of the print it seems to be an image produced in the 1970’s. The frame was professionally constructed and I believe that the effort taken to present it indicates that the owner believed it to be of significane. I called the number of the frame shop and found that it is no longer in business.

I scanned the image and made no changes to it. I searched online for photos and videos from that day for comparable images. Unfortunately I could find no similar images taken from the third baseline. It appears that all comparable were shot from the first baseline. The video I found was also from that angle and overhead. I made screen captures of the available video. The screen captures are below for comparison. I place arrows on some of them to identify similarities without an explanation because I would like your assessments. The only thing that isn't consistent is that in the video Stargell is wearing a batting glove on his right hand. That glove does not appear in the photo. It would have been unusual for him to wear batting gloves so he may have removed it prior to the at bat? Nonetheless, based on what I have found I tend to believe that the photo I purchased does capture the moment of his 3000th hit. Do you agree? I know that my perception is biased due to ownership. The video I primarily used was imbedded in interesting story regarding the bat Clemente used that day http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page...o-clemente-bat

[shernan30]

Looks to be the real deal from what I'm seeing. Great photo, congrats.


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[almostdone]

I think the photo matched evidence make a pretty clear cut case it is truly the same at bat. The three people in the same seats and clothing seals the deal for me. I love the photo. Please keep us updated if you can procure the origin Hal negatives. If you do I would deffinatly be interested in a copy if you were so inclined to duplicate it.

Great piece showing such a historic event.

Drew

[71buc]

Thanks Steven and Drew. I too believe it is a new look at Roberto's 3000th. I so badly wanted to believe it I feared that my judgment was compromised which is why I asked for unbiased opinions. If I secure the slide I will glady make a copy for you.

Mike

[CW]

Many people come on here with photos hoping it's a certain person or a certain event, and they try to stretch the truth to make the story fit, often unable to accept the fact that their item isn't special.

You, on the other hand, have done an excellent job of doing the research and presenting really good evidence to present your case. I think you're right that this does capture the 3K hit moment, and although I don't think it would be worth a huge amount of money, it is historically significant and a needle in the haystack type of find. Well done!

I found another similarity in the last crowd shot you presented, and, like Drew before me, I also thought this photo was the clincher that made me a believer...

[almostdone]

Originally Posted by CW

Many people come on here with photos hoping it's a certain person or a certain event, and they try to stretch the truth to make the story fit, often unable to accept the fact that their item isn't special.

You, on the other hand, have done an excellent job of doing the research and presenting really good evidence to present your case. I think you're right that this does capture the 3K hit moment, and although I don't think it would be worth a huge amount of money, it is historically significant and a needle in the haystack type of find. Well done!

I found another similarity in the last crowd shot you presented, and, like Drew before me, I also thought this photo was the clincher that made me a believer...

Nice catch on the guy in the blue. Deffinatly the same at bat.

[71buc]

CW thanks for the opinion and for finding the additional matching fan. I too doubt that its cash value out weighs its significance. However, it is very fun to find it being a Clemente fan.

[ksfarmboy]

I was bored so I checked the three years that's possible for this photo to be from. 1970 was the first year the Pirates wore these jerseys and 1972 was Clemente's last. So I narrowed the search to this.

Next I narrowed it further since the Pirates are at home and playing against the Mets. Duffy Dyer is catching so I checked the box scores of games that included Dyer and Clemente playing in Pittsburgh. This left six possible games with two from each year. While checking the home plate umpires I discovered that a different ump was used for each of these games. John Kibler umped September 30th.

If you can verify that's Kibler then you would know 100%. Hope this helps.

[71buc]

Thanks Clint, I don't know that I can even definitely say that Dyer is the catcher in the photo. The catcher's posture in the photo does align very closely to the video of Dyer from the 3000 clip. The umpires foot position is consistent as well. In the photo a portion of his white sock is visible. This sock is also visible in the video. I really doubt I could ever definitively identify Kibler or Dyer using such a low resolution photo.