A Scarlet Letter

[orly57]

Most collectors that I know, including myself for the most part, cringe at the thought of buying a card slabbed with the scarlet letter “A.” However, some cards in A holders are not altered. For one reason or another they were given an “authentic” grade rather than a numeric grade. But I find that those cards are just as stained by the A as their far more egregious altered counterparts. I think perhaps it would be wise for TPG’s to change “authentic” to maybe a “G” for “genuine” and leave the “A” for cards that have been altered. Curious about everyone’s thoughts on that.

[conor912]

It's not a bad idea. I still think it would go a long way for TPGs to explain exactly why they gave a card an A instead of shrouding it in mystery. Not only would it give buyers more info to go on, but it would help educate as well.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I would like to see:

AA - Authentic Altered
AU - Authentic Unaltered

[JollyElm]

I just got this one back from the group sub. There's no explanation, it just simply states "AUTHENTIC," which is read by anyone who sees it as "ALTERED"...even though it isn't.

1965mantle350psa.jpg

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I would like to see:

AA - Authentic Altered
AU - Authentic Unaltered

This is a great idea. I am one who will not touch a card with an A, unless the card must be an A (like t206 brown old mill or t215 pirate). I would think otherwise if it had an AU.

[griffon512]

i like the idea as well. if implemented i think the tpg's would generate additional revenues -- not much, but some -- so they should be incentivized to do it.

as an aside, some will speculate that they can get a questionably altered card regraded with a numerical grade so i don't feel it as much of a scarlet letter as it once was.

[calvindog]

I've cracked out two very obviously good PSA cards in A holders and sent them in for numbered SGC grades. PSA doesn't do much of a job in explaining what they're doing with these cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Speaking of SGC, what's up with this? It looks factory to me or at the very least should have a grade with a hand cut designation.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Speaking of SGC, what's up with this? It looks factory to me or at the very least should have a grade with a hand cut designation.

I've never seen a 49 Bowman gray variation with a numerical grade. Every one I've ever seen has been graded an A.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I've never seen a 49 Bowman gray variation with a numerical grade. Every one I've ever seen has been graded an A.

I know, but it makes no sense.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I know, but it makes no sense.

Agreed.

[Fred]

I don't shy away from the "A" grade for a card. If the card has nice appeal then the "A" grade is a great way to collect on a budget, unless the "A" just bothers you that much.

Would anybody take an "A" graded T206 Wagner for $75K if it had really nice appeal but was trimmed (not horribly trimmed - let's say it still has borders)?

What about Zeenuts (and other cards) that have the coupon removed. Those cards are "trimmed" yet the TPGs continue to grade them with numeric grades.

It would just be nice if there were some basic industry standards that the main TPGs would follow. Any card that is HAND CUT gets an "A" on the label. Come up with a basic list of "qualifier" reasons and create industry standard abbreviations (TR = trimmed, HC = hand cut, CA = color added, RE = restored, etc).

[orly57]

Bazookas are handcut, yet TPG’s give numeric grades if there is a sufficient amount of border showing. As for the Wagner example, I think every collector is willing to make an exception for an incredibly rare or special card. One of my favorite cards in my collection is labeled A, but it has a total known population of 2. I didn’t think twice about buying it and the A doesn’t bother me a bit. But for the most part, most collectors hate Authentic cards. And I think that is due in large part to the lack of clarity on the part of TPG’s regarding why it is an A. I think some of you have posted some great alternatives. I like your idea about the abbreviations Fred.

[Pat R]

I don't know why PSA labels all of the factory 30 "no prints" altered.
Technically they are altered because they're hand cut but all of
them are hand cut like the brown old mills and blank backs.

Manning Factory 30.jpgManning Factory 30 Back.jpg

[orly57]

“Technically they are altered because they're hand cut “

I agree with you that this has been the standard, but think about how lazy that is on the part of the TPG. We KNOW they are hand cut! How about you give it a grade anyway??? I paid you to grade it. It is absurd to consider a card “altered” when EVERY CARD IN THE SET IS HANDCUT. How is that even an “alteration?” Yet, as someone noted, you can cut the coupon off a Zeenut or a Fleishmann’s and they will still get a numeric grade. There is no reason why a TPG can’t grade the card and issue a (HC Hand Cut) qualifier. This is another great example of why I started this thread. The blanket use of the letter A for cards that were not purposely altered in order to deceive is LAZY on the part of TPGs.

[RedsFan1941]

it is basketball and not baseball, but there is a gray variation in this set that received a number from SGC. it is clearly hand cut (second scan)

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=53985

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I know, but it makes no sense.

Greys are considered handcuts to most. I know Ted states he pulled them and I have no reason to disbelieve that for baseball but the prevailing belief is that they were cut from factory seconds sheets like all basketball. No basketball grey should have a number, I have never seen a factory cut.

[Pat R]

[QUOTE=orly57;1817915]“Technically they are altered because they're hand cut “

I agree but they devoted a separate section in the pop reports for the
"no prints" and I wish they would have labeled them all like this blank back.

Blank Back.jpg

[Leon]

+1
I just wish TPG's would use their brains sometimes. Telling me these are not hand cut on the phone but then labeling them that way, with a number too, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Originally Posted by orly57

“Technically they are altered because they're hand cut “

I agree with you that this has been the standard, but think about how lazy that is on the part of the TPG. We KNOW they are hand cut! How about you give it a grade anyway??? I paid you to grade it. It is absurd to consider a card “altered” when EVERY CARD IN THE SET IS HANDCUT. How is that even an “alteration?” Yet, as someone noted, you can cut the coupon off a Zeenut or a Fleishmann’s and they will still get a numeric grade. There is no reason why a TPG can’t grade the card and issue a (HC Hand Cut) qualifier. This is another great example of why I started this thread. The blanket use of the letter A for cards that were not purposely altered in order to deceive is LAZY on the part of TPGs.

[steve B]

It does if there's no way to tell if it's fading or not.

The 49s are probably ok, but lots of missing colors are readily fakeable.