Forged Autograph - Read Description - Funny

[Duluth Eskimo]

I thought this description was funny enough to share. Seller is quoting US Supreme Court and trying to prove his case that his autographs are authentic. Classic PT Barnum.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantle-Yogi-...IAAOSwWxNYp3n2

[Duluth Eskimo]

Apparently this guy removed the bulk of his description after I posted this. I would be disappointed if this thief is a member here. Here is what it said.

Supreme Court Delivers Blow

To Autograph Authentication!




High Court ruling sides with Forensic Document Examiners as Experts rather than practical experience.




(March 23, 1999: Gumbo Tire Co. v. Carmichael) The U.S. Supreme Court by an 8-1 ruling told federal trial judges to screen out dubious testimony by self-proclaimed experts when opinions are not based in science. The ruling extends to all manners of individuals such as engineers, psychologists, accountants or handwriting analysts. Before they are permitted to testify to juries, stated examiners must show that their opinions are based on "scientific principals,"

and not just a hunch based on self-described practical experience.

The high court has shown a skepticism toward hired self-proclaimed experts. Six years ago, the Supreme Court said that lower courts should act as "gatekeepers" and to carefully examine testimony by these applicants. Judges should look beyond advertised qualifications and examine the basis of their conclusions on facts.




What does this mean to the industry?

The decision delivers a major blow to the autograph industry. For years, dealers have served as their own authenticators relying on their stated experience to render an autograph authentic or not. Their reputation and experience have been readily accepted by collectors, auction houses and other dealers. Unfortunately, their opinions are not based on "scientific methods" and can be very subjective. They do not have a laboratory and have not apprenticed under anyone trained. Many fabricate their credentials and are clearly not Court Qualified and/or Board Certified. Their opinions are based solely on their self proclaimed experience.




What does this mean to the collector?

Simple, if a dealer-authenticated autograph is disputed and taken to court it will not hold up unless the dealer used scientific forensic techniques. Without credentials and facts the dealer will not be allowed to testify because they are not considered experts by the court. You, the collector, will be left hanging. The federal courts will rely on established Court Qualified & Board Certified Forensic Document Examiners as their experts

[RichardSimon]

That bullsh-- has been around for years on many ads and web sites.
IMO it is ALWAYS a red flag.
In this case it is just more bullsh-- from Florida.
And what the hell is a "court recognized exemplar file?" They actually use those words in the COA. There is no such thing.
Sounds like just some bullsh-- "alternative facts" to me.

[bnorth]

That seller has been posted about before on here for the same stuff.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I thought this description was funny enough to share. Seller is quoting US Supreme Court and trying to prove his case that his autographs are authentic. Classic PT Barnum.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantle-Yogi-...IAAOSwWxNYp3n2

I love it when sellers use this garbage... Then I know there is a 99% chance the item is fake without having to look at it.

Standard boilerplate text from the forgery industry playbook. Forensic, court verified, etc etc. Total garbage. Typical Florida Fake seller using #FakeNews.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Ebay seller Jessmk12 is a long-time seller of the "Florida" forgeries.

All of the sellers of those "Florida" forgeries spew that same crap.


http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...mantle-forgery


http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...all-coa-not-st



http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...oto-safe-at-ho

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Ebay seller Jessmk12 is a long-time seller of the "Florida" forgeries.

All of the sellers of those "Florida" forgeries spew that same crap.


http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...mantle-forgery


http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...all-coa-not-st



http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...oto-safe-at-ho

This is the latest "Florida" COA.




PlatinumCollectiblesCOA-1.jpg

[shelly]

Same crap different wording.

One important point. You can sure as hell can tell a forged photo by the paper it is written on.:

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by shelly

One important point. You can sure as hell can tell a forged photo by the paper it is written on.

+1

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I love it when sellers use this garbage... Then I know there is a 99% chance the item is fake without having to look at it.

Standard boilerplate text from the forgery industry playbook. Forensic, court verified, etc etc. Total garbage. Typical Florida Fake seller using #FakeNews.

Just 99%? I think you are giving them way too much credit.

Tom C

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

This is the latest "Florida" COA.

Does this mean GFA has been kicked to the curb as the "forensics" of choice?

After the distributor of this material admitted in an article it was "for display purposes only," kinda makes you wonder if that caused a rift with the company that was issuing "forensic COAs" with a guarantee for all of it.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Just 99%? I think you are giving them way too much credit.

Tom C

Never say never. There actually is a regular Florida Fake seller who occasionally gets one of those ghastly giant stickers on a low priced authentic item. Salting the mine with a rare authentic item.

He probably thinks that will save him when the authorities finally come calling.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Does this mean GFA has been kicked to the curb as the "forensics" of choice?

After the distributor of this material admitted in an article it was "for display purposes only," kinda makes you wonder if that caused a rift with the company that was issuing "forensic COAs" with a guarantee for all of it.

This is the one that replaced GFA immediately after that.




showtimememorabiliaCOA.jpg

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

That bullsh-- has been around for years on many ads and web sites.
IMO it is ALWAYS a red flag.
In this case it is just more bullsh-- from Florida.
And what the hell is a "court recognized exemplar file?" They actually use those words in the COA. There is no such thing.
Sounds like just some bullsh-- "alternative facts" to me.

Richard,
It sounds like you're just jealous that you can't use "dealer uses scientific forensic techniques".

Sad thing is that this garbage continues to get bids and people assume that eBay's feedback system is protecting them. I know it's old news, but I thought this was over the top by quoting the Supreme Court. Can't make it up

[thetruthisoutthere]

Delusional Ebay autograph collectors continue to buy this "Florida" crap.

Ebay seller Sportspic4u is one of approximately a dozen Ebay sellers who have direct access to this garbage.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roger-Maris-...p2047675.l2557






sportspic4u-30.jpg

sportspic4u-31.jpg

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Just 99%? I think you are giving them way too much credit.

Tom C

I was just going to "come down" on my friend Steve for the same thing.
Don't be so generous Steve,,, btc is right. 99.8% garbage, though I guess a broken clock is right twice a day.

And btw,,, where do they find forensics who would authenticate something like this?
Help wanted ads in the NY Times?
"Wanted forensic examiners who really have no scruples. Apply at 646-555-1212 for low paying piece work."

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

This is the latest "Florida" COA.




Attachment 262248

Must be that Platinum is now the new element of choice for the Florida crooks.
Better than gold or silver ,,, you guys do know how to pick your elements.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Must be that Platinum is now the new element of choice for the Florida crooks.
Better than gold or silver ,,, you guys do know how to pick your elements.

If Ebay wasn't so heavily-populated with the gullible and delusional, those sellers of the "Florida" forgeries would be out of business.

And that Forensic BS. The majority of that garbage is machine-produced and yet Rocchi claims to have forensically examined them.

The newer "Florida" forgeries are hand-signed and they are just as pathetic.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This is from the 2016 National in Atlantic City.

Below are photos of the "Florida" forgeries.




TPod-2.jpg

Tpod-4.jpg

[Mr. Zipper]

Yup. Same exact "product" that typically comes with a "forensic" COA from any number of ebay sellers.

What a hobby...

[Klrdds]

There seems to be no way to stop this garbage from entering the marketplace and continuing to stain and eventually ruining this hobby and its sometimes already shaky reputation with the collecting public and the non collecting public as well.
They say an informed buyer is the best defense against this happening but that is in no way true as long as criminals can hide behind fake credentials and worthless COAs and the SCOTUS is there as their defense, even going so far as to post SCOTUS rulings on their sale pages. Plus eBay knowingly allows this to happen and is complicit in allowing this to continue unabated.
You got to love this hobby !!!

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

There seems to be no way to stop this garbage from entering the marketplace and continuing to stain and eventually ruining this hobby and its sometimes already shaky reputation with the collecting public and the non collecting public as well.
They say an informed buyer is the best defense against this happening but that is in no way true as long as criminals can hide behind fake credentials and worthless COAs and the SCOTUS is there as their defense, even going so far as to post SCOTUS rulings on their sale pages. Plus eBay knowingly allows this to happen and is complicit in allowing this to continue unabated.
You got to love this hobby !!!

As Richard as commented previously in other threads, Ebay is an enabler of this garbage.

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

As Richard as commented previously in other threads, Ebay is an enabler of this garbage.

I agree 100% . An enabler with no recourse against for the buyer .