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  #1  
Old 12-01-2016, 11:29 PM
BleedinBlue BleedinBlue is offline
BRIAN C0ATS
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Default T210 Population Question

I'm hoping some of the T210 experts can weigh in on this.

While reading the PSA Rarities article I was surprised that the stated known population on the T210 Joe Jackson card is fewer than 10 copies.

Is this right? Is this because of the series this card is in? Or is this typical of all T210 series. What is the estimated population of cards in each of the various series? I have 5-6 commons from this set and have never known these to be overly scarce. But perhaps soecific played are harder to find?
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2016, 11:53 PM
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Others with much more knowledge than me will chip in and give better answers, but I can tell you in the past few months of looking, I've seen maybe 3 cards total of Memphis players from Series 8.
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2016, 12:25 AM
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I believe that Series 8 is tougher than the earlier ones, which is reflected in the market prices for commons. I'm not sure whether any of the teams within that series are tougher than others, but for what it's worth, of the four Series 8 cards I have, none are from New Orleans. (One is Nashville, three are Montgomery.)
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2016, 08:14 AM
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I have been looking for low end cards for the Ft Worth players for a couple years and still don't have the full team. Wouldn't call T210's rare but they are not plentiful like T206's or 1990 Donruss. A shameful plug, if anybody has some I have several other T210's(or other cards) to trade for them.
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T210 Series 3 Ft Worth, looking for low end examples and especially ones with a Y shaped hole punch. I also have some extra T210's for trade.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2016, 03:45 PM
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Default T210 pop reports

I collect series 3 Houston-Galveston cards and some series 8, especially New Orleans...Here are the SGC pops on a few...
Joe Jackson--8
Hess, New Orleans--11
Crable, Galveston--8
Northen, Houston--7
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t211t210hess111.jpg (63.8 KB, 573 views)
File Type: jpg t210hougal083.jpg (67.1 KB, 568 views)
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Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2016, 09:21 PM
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Great answers so far. I agree Series 8 cards seem to be super scarce at the moment esp. Memphis and what I consider the toughest team in the set, Chattanooga. I would think there are a few older collectors that have some stashed away in the raw form. The sheer amount of MLB'ers in that Series dwarfs all others so thats a draw as well.

Im not sure if that Northen pop is correct as I have had 4 different graded ones in the last year unless I just got lucky on that one. I kept a Orange and Red for my set. Im looking forward to more posts and info on this thread!
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2016, 09:28 PM
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Total guess/each player total pop

Series
1 30
2 40-50
3 20 Red 5-8 Orange
4 10
5 30
6 10-15
7 10-15
8 2-10

Of course in each Series there are cards that are less abundant for one reason or another.
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2016, 09:45 PM
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Default On T210 pops

Jason, I was just using the SGC pops as a relative guide. I agree that there are many T210 that are ungraded. To the OP's question, Joe Jackson is not a particularly rare T210... Here are 3 different series of Jimmy Hart with the SGC pops
T210-8--4
T211----4
T213-1--2
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t211hart280.jpg (70.7 KB, 545 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1hartmont519.jpg (72.5 KB, 547 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1hartmontb520.jpg (69.0 KB, 548 views)
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Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2016, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
I agree that there are many T210 that are ungraded.
I have 64 T210s, all ungraded.
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2016, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trdcrdkid View Post
I have 64 T210s, all ungraded.
David, Nice! that's a lot of T210's. Did you double-check to see if any of them are Joe Jackson? ha-ha. I have about 25 and I guess about 5 or 6 are ungraded. The longer ago I got them, the more likely they are ungraded. It's getting more and more unlikely to find ungraded cards for sale. Here are a couple more New Orleans t210-8's
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t210-8robertsonNO831.jpg (55.8 KB, 532 views)
File Type: jpg t210-8robertsonNOb832.jpg (62.6 KB, 529 views)
File Type: jpg t210demontreville.jpg (34.5 KB, 522 views)
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Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
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  #11  
Old 12-02-2016, 11:21 PM
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Default Pop

really enjoying this thread,,,
must admit that I'm a bit shocked by the low pop estimates suggested,,,,(though I've had my own difficulties with this set, assembling a Jacksonville team)
Hyames is supposedly one of the toughest cards of the set---any idea of a pop number for him?

Last edited by IMAXMAX; 12-03-2016 at 12:39 AM.
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2016, 12:04 AM
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Default My T210 subset..Catchers with their chest protectors

Hoping to get a T210-6 Thoss to complete my run of T210 catchers wearing chest protectors.

Patrick
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HarringtonT210.JPG (57.3 KB, 491 views)
File Type: jpg DudleyWahl.jpg.w300h521.jpg (27.9 KB, 491 views)
File Type: jpg LUCIAT210.jpg (38.5 KB, 488 views)
File Type: jpg LAUGHLINT210.jpg (62.7 KB, 491 views)
File Type: jpg MunsonT210.jpg.w300h532.jpg (26.9 KB, 486 views)
File Type: jpg Wahl.jpg.w300h527.jpg (28.8 KB, 490 views)
File Type: jpg T210KUNKEL.jpg.w300h513.jpg (27.5 KB, 486 views)
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2016, 12:20 AM
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Them thar chest protectors looks more like a dadblamed apron to me sonny.
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2016, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
David, Nice! that's a lot of T210's. Did you double-check to see if any of them are Joe Jackson? ha-ha.
Ha! Yeah, no luck there. But I do have Ivy Wingo, who had a good career in the majors and is in demand by Black Sox collectors as a member of the 1919 Reds. In fact, I used to have two of them, a nice one and a beater, and I sold the nice one to a board member who wanted it a lot more than I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
I have about 25 and I guess about 5 or 6 are ungraded. The longer ago I got them, the more likely they are ungraded. It's getting more and more unlikely to find ungraded cards for sale.
Almost all of mine were bought 15-25 years ago, first from ads in SCD and then on eBay. I have gotten a few on the BST here in the past couple of years, including one that I traded for another of my doubles that a board member needed.
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2016, 07:35 AM
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Default T210-3

I've also been trying to put together the T210-3 Houston and Galveston team sets. Here's a quick picture of the Houston cards. Most of these came from two sets of purchases (several cards for sale at once), with someone else clearly breaking a set. I've been looking for 3 or 4 yeats and it seems rare for a random single from these two teams to come up.

Jason also tells me that the T210-3 cards that can come with an orange boarder can be tougher to obtain (more bidding competition) because there are several people trying to have parallel red and orange subsets.

I only need a T210-3 Burch to complete the Houston team.
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File Type: jpg T210-3.jpg (75.7 KB, 480 views)
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2016, 10:56 AM
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All of my series 3 are raw except for this guy...



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  #17  
Old 12-03-2016, 10:59 AM
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This is my lone series 8 Chattanooga player.
Oh what I would trade for a Demaree series 8.....



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  #18  
Old 12-03-2016, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Total guess/each player total pop

Series
1 30
2 40-50
3 20 Red 5-8 Orange
4 10
5 30
6 10-15
7 10-15
8 2-10

Of course in each Series there are cards that are less abundant for one reason or another.
I would have guessed(wrongly) way more than those #'s. Thanks for the info Jason as you know way more than I do about these great little cards.

Thanks for the pics of all the beautiful cards everyone.

I have 44 T210's at this time. I like to touch my cards and am responsible for around 15 being cracked out of their plastic prison.
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T210 Series 3 Ft Worth, looking for low end examples and especially ones with a Y shaped hole punch. I also have some extra T210's for trade.

Last edited by bnorth; 12-03-2016 at 11:10 AM.
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  #19  
Old 12-05-2016, 09:50 AM
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Default T210s (Series 8)

We have discussed this a few times in the past (Search Series 8 T210 / T211 and it should be buried on here somewhere) I have collected T210 and T211 for over 15 years. Specifically Series 8 Tennessee (Chattanooga, Memphis, Nashville) have been a part of my passion among other Southern teams. I believe scarcity is there in pockets and we all can see it differently from outside factors like the time frame we actually collect them, and what specifically comes available to market. Also, if you buy some large groups it can make some cards appear easier than others. Based on my collecting experience of acquiring the Series 8 near set one by one over a decade while also assembling the T211 set 1 by 1 (I did buy some very small groups of cards), I contend that the T210 Series 8 Cards that you can't find a parallel to in the T211 set are the toughest due to them being released at a later date as indicated by the T211 "Series 1 of 75". I have noticed a recurring trend with the 39 cards in Series 8 which are not available in the T211 set. They simply don't come up as often as the other 75 cards do. It's easy to figure out what are the toughest 39 cards as well. Simply look at the T211 set, and see which Series 8 cards are not in it. Chattanooga is unquestionably the toughest team to assemble as well as large part of Memphis & Birmingham, but some of the other Southern Teams have a few players not in Series 1 T211, so they are equally as tough as the Chattanooga/Memphis/Birmingham players. There is a consensus among collectors of T211 there was going to be a 2nd series since the back of the card indicates "Series 1 of 75" on it. Joe Jackson isn't in T211, thus making his card much more difficult. (It's part of that 39 card group) Not sure how it all went down, and perhaps there were going to be even more T210-8 cards. Instead of 114, perhaps 150. Either way, 2 things I know from collecting these... 39 of the 114 are extremely rare. the remaining 75 are very scarce in my opinion which makes them reasonably tough as well, but good luck trying to assemble the whole Chatt, Memphis, B'Ham team. It took me 10-12 years, best I recall. I gave up the ghost on the T211 set after getting into the 60's as well, falling just short of the set. So much fun to collect, and I kept a few of my favorites... Will post a few - Hope this long winded posts makes sense. Apologies up front for the ramble. - Pic added for Andy - Happy Holidays everyone!
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File Type: jpg 8-C-Demaree.jpg (59.8 KB, 429 views)
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Last edited by DixieBaseball; 12-05-2016 at 10:08 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-05-2016, 10:19 AM
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Default Re : Joe Jackson

I wanted to comment on Joe Jackson. I think we all get lulled into thinking this card is not rare by how often it comes up for sale and flashed and marketed in front of our eyes constantly. (quarterly in some auction). I would ask anyone to tell me their definition of Rare. 10 or less? 15 or less? 20 or less? Joe is in that mix somewhere... Obviously, his card has been looked for the most out of the T210's, so most are unearthed and probably a very few still left buried in a group of T210's somewhere, meaning most/majority are accounted for... So how many Joe's are there on Population reports of PSA/SGC?

Here's a few pics of some of my favorite Memphis players for Nick...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 8-M-Crandall (2).jpg (67.1 KB, 425 views)
File Type: jpg 8-M-Farrell.jpg (78.5 KB, 423 views)
File Type: jpg 8-M-Rementer.jpg (71.5 KB, 427 views)
File Type: jpg 8-M-Peters.jpg (68.3 KB, 423 views)
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Last edited by DixieBaseball; 12-05-2016 at 10:53 AM.
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  #21  
Old 12-05-2016, 12:05 PM
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For several years I have attempted to collect the entire T210 set (minus Joe Jax and Stengel) and I believe I will never finish, but it's been both interesting and fun to collect the red bordered cards. There are series which are tough (obviously) and then scarcities among the cards in the tough series. Series 2 was a snap, there are a couple of cards in Series 1 which NEVER pop up for sale and 3 is not too bad except if, like me, you go after the orange border cards which are only in Series 3. Series 5 is doable but then comes the problem. About half of the Series 8 cards are obtainable but the other half have proven to be very difficult, like the Memphis cards. 6 and 7 are tough but I have been fighting through those scarcities. Series 4 may be the least known tough series. There are some cards in that series which seemingly never are offered for sale.
2016 was a good year for me although I bought arguably the toughest card in Series 1, one which I had never seen offered before, Al Lee of Macon. There is another Lee in Series 1, Jack Lee of Jacksonville. The seller accidentally sent me the common fair condition Jack Lee and sent the tough vgex Al Lee to the guy who won the Jack Lee, by mistake. The guy who got my card refused to return it to the seller (hopefully you are reading this so you know I know who you are), so I am still searching for Al Lee if anyone out there has one. He told the seller he immediately sent it to TPG for slabbing so it is obvious he knew he had been the beneficiary of the mistake. 99% of collectors on this Board would have done the "right thing" but I guess he is a "1%er."
Sorry for the rant.....
tbob
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  #22  
Old 12-05-2016, 05:10 PM
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There's definitely some solid information in this thread. In regard to the population of particular cards and difficulties of the different series, I think we can only speculate.

Having collected this set for a few years myself, I contend that the most difficult T210 card is the one you're currently searching for.
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  #23  
Old 12-05-2016, 07:15 PM
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Finishing Series 1 is tougher than it is deemed. I found, overall, Jacksonville was a tad tougher than other teams. But, as TBob says, there are some real toughies out there. However, never really knew Lee, Macon was one (added him to my five top toughs). BTW, that's brutally sad "Lee" situation, stinks....

My Tough Ones (and maybe reasons why):

Viola -- Same player as misspelled T206 Violat. Maybe the T206 connection, or him being one of the earliest Latin players. I "think" he is THE toughest.
Schwietzka -- Don't know. Maybe the same reason he is one of my favorites: Great name and pose.
Manion and Lipe: Same, possible T206 (T211 ?) connection.
"Oyster Joe" Martina -- Rookie card of a player with long (20+ years) minor league experience, and "odd" late career appearance with World Champion 1924 Senators.
Lee, Macon -- ??????

XXX6.jpg

It is a great set to pursue. Yeah, 610 isn't terribly realistic. BUT, you can collect them any way you want --- team, series, region, etc........

Fun stuff, Scott
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  #24  
Old 12-05-2016, 09:46 PM
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Since there is a guesstimate for the number of cards for each series and there are a number of people on the board who own these cards, why doesn't someone (not me since I don't know much about the set) start a spreadsheet and see how many cards members own and then compare that to the estimates?

David
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  #25  
Old 12-05-2016, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
I wanted to comment on Joe Jackson. I think we all get lulled into thinking this card is not rare by how often it comes up for sale and flashed and marketed in front of our eyes constantly. (quarterly in some auction). I would ask anyone to tell me their definition of Rare. 10 or less? 15 or less? 20 or less? Joe is in that mix somewhere... Obviously, his card has been looked for the most out of the T210's, so most are unearthed and probably a very few still left buried in a group of T210's somewhere, meaning most/majority are accounted for... So how many Joe's are there on Population reports of PSA/SGC?

Here's a few pics of some of my favorite Memphis players for Nick...
Wow, great stuff. Thanks for posting the scans! Fingers crossed that one day I can finish off the Memphis set.
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  #26  
Old 03-25-2018, 07:22 PM
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Thanks to everyone that cmooneted on this thread. I’ve decided that I want to collect some of these and there’s not much info out there. This is the best source of info that I’ve found yet!
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  #27  
Old 03-25-2018, 09:32 PM
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A few years ago I knew if three complete T210 sets and several near completion. I'd say that all cards have at least ten copies.
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  #28  
Old 03-26-2018, 08:35 PM
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How tough is the Mascot card?
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  #29  
Old 03-26-2018, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
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How tough is the Mascot card?
Not so much tough as loved and not sold very often. Which makes them pricey when they come available.
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  #30  
Old 03-26-2018, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul View Post
How tough is the Mascot card?
I may have missing one or two but I have seen the Mascot card for sale a total of 5 times in the last 6 years. And the same card accounted for two of those sales.

Nice one Ed!
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
=Jason;1761440]I may have missing one or two but I have seen the Mascot card for sale a total of 5 times in the last 6 years. And the same card accounted for two of those sales.

Nice one Ed!
Jason, I still don't think it is all that tough a card, I think I am right that it just is not offered up all that often. It, to me, is the cutest card from the era. I am assuming that Kelly, Goldsboro is this guy's dad, and by contrast, dad's pop report is lower. To me "tough" means hard to even find, let alone buy. I could get a Joe Jackson tonight (not saying it isn't scarce, it really is) if I had the cash, and I don't think that one coming up every year is tough (you said you have seen five in six years). We both know there are some really tough cards, some I have never seen for public sale. I think it was you that bought that Viox awhile back, and that was the first time I have seen that card for sale, though one sold since then. I guess it is a personal definition of what "tough" is. Anyway, just a discussion, not meant as attack. Thanks for the compliment, the back of my Kelly is why I could afford it, but I could care less, I love this card.
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  #32  
Old 03-26-2018, 10:36 PM
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Yes the T210 set has much tougher cards than the Kelly Mascot. I can agree with your thinking on the card not being offered too often due to its popularity. Awesome card either way!
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Last edited by Jason; 03-26-2018 at 10:37 PM.
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  #33  
Old 03-27-2018, 12:13 PM
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Default TPG pop totals

I am no expert on T210s but since no one else has posted these figures, I will. I have been playing around with pop reports recently and here are the totals for the various T210 series (as of about 3 weeks ago):

PSA SGC TOT # in series PER CARD
235 555 790 75 10.533
396 597 993 87 11.414
216 597 813 95 8.558
109 167 276 49 5.633
121 369 490 87 5.632
127 193 320 66 4.848
81 126 207 67 3.090
292 540 832 114 7.298
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  #34  
Old 03-27-2018, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timn1 View Post
I am no expert on T210s but since no one else has posted these figures, I will. I have been playing around with pop reports recently and here are the totals for the various T210 series (as of about 3 weeks ago):

PSA SGC TOT # in series PER CARD
235 555 790 75 10.533
396 597 993 87 11.414
216 597 813 95 8.558
109 167 276 49 5.633
121 369 490 87 5.632
127 193 320 66 4.848
81 126 207 67 3.090
292 540 832 114 7.298
I have never had much faith in graded card #s. We have no idea how many ungraded cards there are. Then the graded #s are wrong because of resubmissions to the same or other company. I know I myself have affected those graded #s by at least 40 cards.
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T210 Series 3 Ft Worth, looking for low end examples and especially ones with a Y shaped hole punch. I also have some extra T210's for trade.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:27 PM
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Default sure

Lots of things can affect the graded card pop reports and make them incomplete if not unreliable. I think this type of survey may be more useful than some would be, however, because there's no particular reason to believe that one series of T210 would be affected more than the others by those factors.

I also feel like the order of scarcity pretty much confirms what we have always been told by the experts (1, 2, and 8 easier, etc.) - But take it FWIW to you-
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Old 03-27-2018, 05:04 PM
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I believe many of the T210 collections are largely ungraded, primarily due to the size of the set and the cost of grading, with the fact that most won't grade all that high.

As to guesstimates, I would take each number provided per series and multiply it times 3 and I think you will be close to actual populations.
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post
I believe many of the T210 collections are largely ungraded, primarily due to the size of the set and the cost of grading, with the fact that most won't grade all that high.

As to guesstimates, I would take each number provided per series and multiply it times 3 and I think you will be close to actual populations.
All good points by Scott, and a couple of others are that the T210 cards are not, besides for a handful of popular ones (Jackson, Stengel, etc.), cards that an investor are interested in, and thus many are in the hands of collectors who do/did not collect/buy graded cards, or would even consider having them graded. They are definitely low in population compared to the Monstrous T206 cards, but my guess is that they are still mostly in the hands of collectors and to a smaller extent non-collectors, and a whole mess still remain unslabbed. I think it is even possible that you could x4 the graded numbers and still be reasonably accurate. It is definitely helpful to see those graded card numbers as a point of reference.

Brian
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Old 03-27-2018, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timn1 View Post
I am no expert on T210s but since no one else has posted these figures, I will. I have been playing around with pop reports recently and here are the totals for the various T210 series (as of about 3 weeks ago):

PSA SGC TOT # in series PER CARD
235 555 790 75 10.533
396 597 993 87 11.414
216 597 813 95 8.558
109 167 276 49 5.633
121 369 490 87 5.632
127 193 320 66 4.848
81 126 207 67 3.090
292 540 832 114 7.298
I believe those numbers are very telling to the different levels of scarcity within the various Series. Very interesting to see them posted. Thank you for the information.
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Old 09-12-2019, 03:20 PM
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18 months since the start of this thread and I stand by my population guess even more There has not been a significant new collection come up for sale / auction in quite some time. There are a billion T206 Cobbs but no new T210's every make there way to the market. That goes for a lot of Southern issues as well such as T209-2 and T211. After a sparse year when I saw REA didnt have much by the way of those issues I got a little worried. My bank account has never been happier though lol.
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
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18 months since the start of this thread and I stand by my population guess even more There has not been a significant new collection come up for sale / auction in quite some time. There are a billion T206 Cobbs but no new T210's every make there way to the market. That goes for a lot of Southern issues as well such as T209-2 and T211. After a sparse year when I saw REA didnt have much by the way of those issues I got a little worried. My bank account has never been happier though lol.
Great set that i still need to finish the Ft Worth team set. Been buying Eddie Mathews cards and Wade Boggs bats instead. Someday I hope to be able to focus on a card project till it is finished. Probably won't be any time soon.
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T210 Series 3 Ft Worth, looking for low end examples and especially ones with a Y shaped hole punch. I also have some extra T210's for trade.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:25 PM
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Default T210 drought!

I'll 2nd Jason's comments regarding how few new T210's are showing up.

Other than one's that have been on eBay forever, very few new listings.

Waiting impatiently for the drought to end!

Patrick
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:44 AM
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Yes the T210 set has much tougher cards than the Kelly Mascot. I can agree with your thinking on the card not being offered too often due to its popularity. Awesome card either way!
Older original thread but next to Jackson, Mascot is easily my favorite card in the set.
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Old Yesterday, 08:02 PM
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I figured since this thread was getting a little love again, I'd share my progress on the T210 Fort Worth set. I picked up most of these earlier in the summer but wasn't organized. I'm happy to be getting back to that point.

Anyway, I've acquired 12 of the 16 Fort Worth players.





I'm also attempting to put together the Galveston and Dallas sets. If I win Powerball, maybe I'll be able to piece Birmingham together! LOL

Happy collecting, y'all!
-kin
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