Jacob deGrom most Ks in first 200 games

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Seven

While not a direct one to one comparison, I feel like DeGrom is somewhat close to a modern day Sandy Koufax. An absurdly talented pitcher, that everyone wants on the mound in the big game, but that struggles with health problems. Granted Koufax was able to string together the final six seasons of his career, a magical six seasons!

I hope DeGrom can come back and have a respectable end of a career

I think that Degrom is more like Tim Lincecum that was Amazon start to his career (except he won 3 World Series) had a short career with highs being highs ie 2 Cy young’s and 3 NL strikeout leader awards and even pitched for Texas (and even started his Texas Career on the DL) but injuries and health issues (degenerative hip condition) ended his career to early

[Seven]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I think that Degrom is more like Tim Lincecum that was Amazon start to his career (except he won 3 World Series) had a short career with highs being highs ie 2 Cy young’s and 3 NL strikeout leader awards and even pitched for Texas (and even started his Texas Career on the DL) but injuries and health issues (degenerative hip condition) ended his career to early

I think that is a fair comparison too. I don't think DeGrom's career is over just yet, Maybe a transition into a closer could be in order for him? Could perhaps the stress of a starting pitcher be too much on his elbow? Closing would allow him to go max effort, all the time for 2 innings a pop. Or Maybe utilize him how the old school, traditional closers were, and have him throw 3 innings? I'm just spitballing here.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think that is a fair comparison too. I don't think DeGrom's career is over just yet, Maybe a transition into a closer could be in order for him? Could perhaps the stress of a starting pitcher be too much on his elbow? Closing would allow him to go max effort, all the time for 2 innings a pop. Or Maybe utilize him how the old school, traditional closers were, and have him throw 3 innings? I'm just spitballing here.

I agree I do not think his career is over but as he battles injury and Father Time it makes it harder and as for relief pitching or closing games
that is doable and John Smoltz did it for a few years when he has injury issues and he was amazing at it (even was the NL Saves leader in 2002 )but was younger also when he did it and then came back and started some more

[Peter_Spaeth]

Pretty sobering career stats if you really look at the body of work, and now he's on ice for one plus years. We're only captivated by him because we know how untouchable he is capable of being. But in this life you have to deliver on your talent. I'm ready to stick a fork in his HOF chances.

Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Pitching - 12 (244th), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink
Pitching - 92 (310th), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor
Pitching - 51 (275th), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Pitching - 34 (118th), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Starting Pitcher (113th):
44.6 career WAR | 39.8 7yr-peak WAR | 42.2 JAWS | 42.2 S-JAWS | 7.0 WAR/162
Average HOF P (out of 66):
73.0 career WAR | 49.9 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162

[Peter_Spaeth]

I haven't studied the stat lines, but he reminds me of Chris Sale, who is a really really good pitcher but can't seem to stay healthy.

[Jim65]

deGrom isn't a HOF and now will probably never be. When all is said and done, his career isn't better than other multiple Cy Young winners who have no chance at the HOF, like Johan Santana or Bret Saberhagen

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

deGrom isn't a HOF and now will probably never be. When all is said and done, his career isn't better than other multiple Cy Young winners who have no chance at the HOF, like Johan Santana or Bret Saberhagen

Santana is a good analogy, he had a short peak where he was sublime.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Pretty sobering career stats if you really look at the body of work, and now he's on ice for one plus years. We're only captivated by him because we know how untouchable he is capable of being. But in this life you have to deliver on your talent. I'm ready to stick a fork in his HOF chances.

Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Pitching - 12 (244th), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink
Pitching - 92 (310th), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor
Pitching - 51 (275th), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Pitching - 34 (118th), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Starting Pitcher (113th):
44.6 career WAR | 39.8 7yr-peak WAR | 42.2 JAWS | 42.2 S-JAWS | 7.0 WAR/162
Average HOF P (out of 66):
73.0 career WAR | 49.9 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162

I didn't realize how bleak it looked, until you posted the numbers. Short of him pulling a Randy Johnson and winning a couple of more Cy Youngs in his late 30's, it's pretty much impossible for him to get to the Hall now. A damn shame, considering his talent. Put him up there in the "What if?" category with so many other talented ballplayers that succumbed to, too many injuries.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Seven

I didn't realize how bleak it looked, until you posted the numbers. Short of him pulling a Randy Johnson and winning a couple of more Cy Youngs in his late 30's, it's pretty much impossible for him to get to the Hall now. A damn shame, considering his talent. Put him up there in the "What if?" category with so many other talented ballplayers that succumbed to, too many injuries.

well said

Pleasure watching him when healthy but the best ability is availability and sadly like other potential greats he is not

[D. Bergin]

Article on "The Ringer" about Degrom. Author makes an interesting point about Degrom continuing to push up his velocity numbers, even as his injury history is mounting.

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2023/6...gers-takeaways

I think that speaks to his mindset (or ego) as a pitcher. Instead of pacing himself and continuing to be available while giving up runs here and there, he treats every batter as if they're the last out in the bottom of the 9th of a 1 run game with the bases loaded.

That might be all hardcore and all, but there's a reason why Mariano Rivera, Aroldis Chapman, Dan Quissenberry and company, aren't starting pitchers. The human body is not made to pitch with that intensity for more then a couple innings at a time.

I say Degrom has no chance of making the HOF........unless.....a BIG unless...unless he comes back as a dominant stopper like an Eckersley, and has a long run in that role, well into his 40's.