Dealer Pet Peeves or "Tricks"

[mintacular]

I understand life is tough for dealers these days, but in my humble opinion doesn't justify these "tricks", which are annoying, borderline dishonest.

1. Selling a lot of 1,000 cards and then you get home there are 850.

2. Well "book price" is $200 so I will sell you this vg card for $50.

3. Listing "semi-highs" as "high numbers"

4. "Does not say reprint" when selling obviously reprinted cards

[SMPEP]

How is the "book price is" a dishonest trick?

Unless you are calling the book itself dishonest, there are listed prices. Reporting what those are is a piece of legitimate interest, and valuable to folks that don't buy the book (perhaps).

Now if you want to say that book price don't reflect reality ... well, then I'll agree with you as I find that to be true in most cases.

Cheers,
Patrick

[mintacular]

Ultimately, it is up to the buyer to be informed and be able to see through the b.s. In that sense, it is not the seller's fault if the buyer is not educated. So this thread is not intended to beat up up dealers as there are many great ones out there and yes, they have to be salesman. That said, I am just highlighting or hoping to do the typical "pitfalls" that buyers experience.

[SMPEP]

#4 is my big peeve.

Total waste of my time opening up something that wasn't listed as reprint to find out it is.

Total waste of time having thousands of Mantle reprints that you can't get rid of to find the real ones.

I understand that there are some good reprints out there. I have two that I can't quite tell if they are real or not (Rose RC and 62 Mantle) because they feel a bit thin - but otherwise look right. So when selling those I get the caveat saying these might be reprints.

But in 99% of the times - the seller knows he's selling a fake and is hoping the buyer is too stupid to know it and will pay top dollar.

Those are the sellers I never buy from for any reason though. Frequently I email them and ask them to block me from their auctions (in case I forget who they are).

Cheers,
Patrick

[Exhibitman]

All but #2 are criminal acts. Open and shut fraud. #2 is an effort to market as long as the seller doesn't say the card is near mint.

[hangman62]

How about " at least 200 card in the lot ,haven't really counted ( most likely 201)

Or - Too busy to go thru lot and tell buyer card #s or how many doubles " but lot is unsearched".. most likely all low #s , lots of double's, and no stars

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

All but #2 are criminal acts. Open and shut fraud. #2 is an effort to market as long as the seller doesn't say the card is near mint.

I take issue with number 2 - as most "books" specifically state "the listed prices are for cards in ??? condition" cards in lesser condition sell for x% of the listed price. So if a dealer states the "book price" for a vg card is the price "listed in the book" - they are being highly deceptive and looking to take advantage of an inexperienced buyer (REALLY poor for long term business and building a larger hobby base imo). That said as stated - caveat emptor - if you don't know what you are buying, you shouldn't be buying it. A few local dealers at small card shows tried to pull this one on my kids - including 1 schmuck who said he "hadn't changed the prices on his g-vg 60's and 70's garbage ) in a "long time" and he really needed to put new higher prices on them. Offered my 10 yo a vg 1966 Clemente for I think $120 - yeah right!

[tschock]

Originally Posted by mintacular

2. Well "book price" is $200 so I will sell you this vg card for $50.

This one is the most pervasive. However to try and be fair, I think it is more of an accepted expression, even though still inaccurate, where "book price" really means "book price in NM condition". So if that VG '50s Whitey Ford says $200 'in the book', the "book price" is closer to $50 (give or take).

Many variations on this, such as "it's a $200 card but you can have it for $50". No, it's a $50 card because of the slight crease and rough corners but I can have it at the $50 book price. Or "the card books for $200", etc etc.

At times, it really annoys me because it is not precise, but most of the times this affects me like water on a duck, especially with dealers I work with on a regular basis because we both know what we mean. But when I run into dealers that annoy me and they use this expression, I enjoy 'politely' pointing out that the book value of your '50s Ford is NOT $200 but rather $50. And if I have some off condition cards with me, I offer to sell them at a "much better than 50% off rate" from the "book price".

On another note....

One that used to happen more frequently years ago than now. The dealer would use one book (say, a recent Beckett) as a reference when 'selling' a card but another (say, and older SCD guide) when offering to buy cards.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by tschock

One that used to happen more frequently years ago than now. The dealer would use one book (say, a recent Beckett) as a reference when 'selling' a card but another (say, and older SCD guide) when offering to buy cards.

I remember that trick very well. High book to sell and low book to buy.

[buymycards]

You can't believe the number of times that I have asked a dealer if they have any tobacco cards or pre-WW2 cards and they say "no". Then, when I am looking at the cards in their display case I find a couple of 33 Goudeys' or T206's.

Also, it never hurts to go through the dollar boxes or $5-$10 boxes. Sometimes there are some low grade pre-war cards.

[Exhibitman]

"Are you looking for anything specific?"

"No, just looking."

"Well, let me know if you need any help."

I must hear this or some close variant on it 50x a day at the National. I've always wanted to respond with: "No, I think I will just stand there with my thumb up my butt instead, waiting for a voice inside my head to answer my question."

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

"Are you looking for anything specific?"

"No, just looking."

"Well, let me know if you need any help."

I must hear this or some close variant on it 50x a day at the National. I've always wanted to respond with: "No, I think I will just stand there with my thumb up my butt instead, waiting for a voice inside my head to answer my question."

That's a little harsh - says a dealer who has definitely said this. It's just polite nothing, the little noises we make to help the world go 'round.

So my two responses in a row are on a similar issue. Let's have a look from the dealer's perspective. Do you know how many times I've asked someone if they're looking for something specific and they say "no" while standing in front of a showcase full of 60's and 70's rookies. Then they walk down my table and look into another case and say something like "Oh, you have 1948 Bowman Football? I need a ____________" There have also been times when I'm told "No, just looking" and something happens that starts a conversation and finally after we've talked he admits he's looking for VG 1953 Bowman Color commons and he has his list with him. So disingenuous noises happen on both sides of the table. I'm not a bitter person by nature, so I just chalk it up to life, the universe, and everything. But that may be the reason some dealers try harder to engage the people on the other side of the table.

[jchcollins]

Doesn't happen much anymore because I've aged, but dealers that refuse to pay attention to kids and/or younger looking people. I used to go to shows back in my teens or early 20's with like $1,500 cash in my pocket that I did not plan on bringing home. Then would stand at a guy's table for 5 or 10 minutes while he refused to break-up his idle chat with the dealer next to him to see if perhaps I wanted to see something inside the showcase that I've been hovering over and breathing on. Ok, no skin off my nose. I would just move on and none of those guys ever got my business.


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[SMPEP]

Adam - as someone who has probably had that exact conversation with you at your LA show, let me state for the record ... I'd be MUCH happier with you saying that to me, than seeing you actually do that!

Cheers,
Patrick

[jchcollins]

Here is another one I had forgotten about that happened to me as a kid:

"Dealers being dishonest / not 100% accurate about the true nature of errors and variations":

When I was 12 in 1989, we went up to visit my grandmother in the Philly suburbs. While there on a trip to downtown Philly (I think, anyway...) I bought a 1958 Topps #30 Hank Aaron at a shop that the dealer swore to me was the "yellow name" variation. I took his word for it, not being privy to anything besides the "YL" abbreviation in that month's Beckett which I'm sure I probably had on me at the time. As you may be wondering if trying to guess where this story is going, the letters that the dealer insisted were the variation were of course the team letters at the bottom, just like the variation on the Clemente card in the same set. And as you also no doubt are aware now in the 21st century, the yellow team letters on a '58 Aaron are what every '58 Aaron has - the true variation is the player name above in either white or yellow letters. And the card that this gentleman sold me of course had Hank's name in plain white at the top of the card.

I learned the truth later before too much longer and was pissed for awhile, but in the end was not out much of anything - the card in question had some creasing and other issues and was probably G/VG at best, and I think I paid $50 for it. (Which yeah, I shudder to think in 1989 dollars - that was a lot for 12 year-old me...) So I probably overpaid for the card in the condition it was in at the time by $20 or so. And I got over it and still loved the card anyway and cherished it like any 12 year-old kid in the 1980's should have his only original Hank Aaron card. But I still believe in my heart of hearts today that the dealer knew exactly what the "variation" was, and was just taking me for a ride for an extra $20 or so. And that still makes me see a little bit of red now on the rare occasions that I think about it.

[irv]

I had a dealer last year tell me at the Toronto card Expo, after waiting for what seemed like a very long time, as he explained the Black Swamp find to two people, like he had found them himself, tell me he wanted $800 for a 52 Topps Joe Black that was maybe a 2-3 with black smudge/ink marks on the left lower border.

I gave him a bit of a sideways glance that clearly, imo, said get real, but he walked away like his price was firm or without telling me there is some wiggle room.

Although people can, obviously, ask what they want for a card, it was easily overpriced by $500+, and then some, so if it's actually for sale, then try to be a little more realistic about your prices.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by irv

I had a dealer last year tell me at the Toronto card Expo, after waiting for what seemed like a very long time, as he explained the Black Swamp find to two people, like he had found them himself, tell me he wanted $800 for a 52 Topps Joe Black that was maybe a 2-3 with black smudge/ink marks on the left lower border.

I gave him a bit of a sideways glance that clearly, imo, said get real, but he walked away like his price was firm or without telling me there is some wiggle room.

Although people can, obviously, ask what they want for a card, it was easily overpriced by $500+, and then some, so if it's actually for sale, then try to be a little more realistic about your prices.

Particularly when so many of us can walk 15 feet away and immediately summon VCP on our phones and check prices.

[PowderedH2O]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Doesn't happen much anymore because I've aged, but dealers that refuse to pay attention to kids and/or younger looking people. I used to go to shows back in my teens or early 20's with like $1,500 cash in my pocket that I did not plan on bringing home. Then would stand at a guy's table for 5 or 10 minutes while he refused to break-up his idle chat with the dealer next to him to see if perhaps I wanted to see something inside the showcase that I've been hovering over and breathing on. Ok, no skin off my nose. I would just move on and none of those guys ever got my business.


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I had this exact experience when I was a teen. I saved money to go to a card show and when I asked to see some cards from the 1950's (this was in the early 80's), I was basically told to go pound sand.

I'll be honest. I've met very few dealers or collectors that I actually like. So, I'd just as soon do my buying from the internet and skip the live shows. I haven't entered a card shop or attended a show since maybe 2003. Of course, since there are no shops anywhere near me, so that kind of helps the situation...

[JollyElm]

How about when people post something like "F/S: 1961 Topps Mantle PSA 6 (SHOULD BE 7)"??

If you live by the all-knowing grading companies, then die by the all-knowing grading companies.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

How about when people post something like "F/S: 1961 Topps Mantle PSA 6 (SHOULD BE 7)"??

If you live by the all-knowing grading companies, then die by the all-knowing grading companies.

+1 on this - waiting for the one time when they say 1961 Topps PSA 6 (Should be a 5) My guess is that I will be waiting for a while

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

+1 on this - waiting for the one time when they say 1961 Topps PSA 6 (Should be a 5) My guess is that I will be waiting for a while

check my ebay listings, I usually have a handful where I say something like. "I have no idea how this card got a PSA 6." A little humor and honesty goes a long way.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

How about when people post something like "F/S: 1961 Topps Mantle PSA 6 (SHOULD BE 7)"??

If you live by the all-knowing grading companies, then die by the all-knowing grading companies.

I agree, the only thing worse is posting a for trade thread and wanting unrealistic trades.

[granite75]

No one likes to be ignored. The big show in Wilmington, MA I can count on one hand the guys that either greeted me or made eye contact. So many of them talking amongst themselves, many complaining about this and that. All it takes is a hello and 'If I can show you anything, let me know'. Had one dealer who was fairly busy, still greeted me, got to me when he had the chance, knew his inventory, I dropped $500 of the $800 I spent that day at his table.

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