increase in auction buyers premium

[jboosted92]

was i asleep at the wheel, when they all jumped above 20% , WTH

[Cubswin82]

I've been actively using auction sites probably the last 3-4 years...and they've all been around 20% since I've been searching them. A bit steep so I don't buy much unless its something I absolutely need for my collection.

[SmokyBurgess]

I sure do miss the old days when my "Sports Collectors Digest" would arrive. It was smaller and fatter in those days with lots of great ads....and very few auctions.

20%? Dump the Auctions.

[vintagehofrookies]

thats why the only auction I'd consign to is BST

[Taxman]

Probably the reason for PWCC and Probstein's following(lack of hammer fees).

[ALR-bishop]

As strictly a buyer I do not care what premium is applied on the sale, only that I know what is is up front so that I can factor it into the price I am willing to pay for the item. I get more annoyed by unstated/unexpectedly high shipping/insurance charges

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

As strictly a buyer I do not care what premium is applied on the sale, only that I know what is is up front so that I can factor it into the price I am willing to pay for the item. I get more annoyed by unstated/unexpectedly high shipping/insurance charges

Exactly. The people who should be most concerned about high buyer's premiums are consignors.

[Stonepony]

20% will definitely make me take pause when considering next consignment. There are other options out there for sure.

[frankbmd]

One would think that the hammer price for an item in a 0% Buyer's Premium auction would be about 20% higher than the hammer price for the same item in a 20% Buyer's Premium auction................


but then again that would presume that all bidders are thinking.

[vintagehofrookies]

Originally Posted by Taxman

Probably the reason for PWCC and Probstein's following(lack of hammer fees).

they both have hammer fees. PWCC's are just as bad as the major AH's. At least Probsteins are reasonable

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

As strictly a buyer I do not care what premium is applied on the sale, only that I know what is is up front so that I can factor it into the price I am willing to pay for the item. I get more annoyed by unstated/unexpectedly high shipping/insurance charges

It continues to amaze how many people do not understand this.

[iowadoc77]

Ah, the "juice." Making unaffordable cards even more unaffordable since its inception. By the time you buy a $100 card, it's $120, but no wait, it may be as high as $140 after shipping, heck of a deal.

[darwinbulldog]

And here I was thinking how great it was that I was picking up $100 cards with $75 bids.

[GregMitch34]

Yes, I agree, so many people don't "get" that actually bid price in most cases is 20% below final price...that's why VCP and others always use final price and it almost always matches the non-auction values...

[rdwyer]

I agree. The ones who suffer the most are the consigners. They would get more, if it wasn't for the hammer price, etc.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It continues to amaze how many people do not understand this.

+1

[darwinbulldog]

+0.2

[pokerplyr80]

I live in CA, so sites like heritage and memory lane have an effective 30% premium with tax (8.5%) and shipping added in. It makes it hard to compete with guys bidding in states with no sales tax.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I live in CA, so sites like heritage and memory lane have an effective 30% premium with tax (8.5%) and shipping added in. It makes it hard to compete with guys bidding in states with no sales tax.

sounds like you need a PO box in another state to "play the game"
just joking of course, but that is a crappy deal

[Exhibitman]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't begrudge the auctioneers their livings. Most of them perform a valued service for sellers and buyers on a contingent basis: no sale = no cost to the consignor. With the costs of eBay and Paypal to the casual [no store] seller running around 13% if the item sells, paying another 7% to the AH to take care of things like cataloging, scanning, fulfillment and collections is a no-brainer for me.

The other factor at work with BP rates is that many [most?] consignors now demand and are given 0% commission deals. There are enough auction alternatives that a consignor with halfway decent stuff can limit the AH's take to the BP. I walked away from one AH that wanted 5% commission on top of a 20% BP and placed my stuff with someone else who offered no commission deals. Some even give back a piece of the BP on higher outcomes. I think BST had a sign at the National with a list of BP nets for higher price sales and I think Probstein had one too.

[pokerplyr80]

I don't have a problem with anyone or any auction house getting paid for their services. No one should work for free. I was just saying that on sites like I mentioned the premium and tax generally puts the price of a card beyond what I'm willing to pay.

And with guys like PWCC and Probstein who charge only an 8-12% commission depending on what an item sells for, it can make them more attractive and help a consignor net more as a result.

[glchen]

Although I agree that most buyers taking BP into consideration for pricing the final price of bids, I do think that there is a side effect of increasing BP's. And that is making the bid increments larger. The higher the BP goes, the larger the increment, so I think it still would be worthwhile if some AH's offset this by reducing the bid increments.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by glchen

Although I agree that most buyers taking BP into consideration for pricing the final price of bids, I do think that there is a side effect of increasing BP's. And that is making the bid increments larger. The higher the BP goes, the larger the increment, so I think it still would be worthwhile if some AH's offset this by reducing the bid increments.

Very interesting point! But the increments aren't technically any larger. They are still 10% bid increments, not 12%...

A card that is currently at $1,000 + 20% BP = $1,200. The next increment is 10% of $1,000 = $1,100. Adding in the 20% BP and the full card price is now $1,320. $1,320 / $1,200 is still a 10% bid increment to the buyer (if they are smart enough to factor in the BP in the first place). While the dollar bid increments are larger with the BP's, the relative increments in percent are still unchanged.

[pokerplyr80]

I can't remember which site it was, but there was a site that when I placed a bid, say $1,000, it actually noted that I was bidding $1,200 with the buyer's premium. I thought that was very helpful, and wish there was some way to require this. I'm sure it's not beneficial to the AH, since people may forget about the premium and bid more than they originally intended. But it does say something for the integrity of the site.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I can't remember which site it was, but there was a site that when I placed a bid, say $1,000, it actually noted that I was bidding $1,200 with the buyer's premium. I thought that was very helpful, and wish there was some way to require this. I'm sure it's not beneficial to the AH, since people may forget about the premium and bid more than they originally intended. But it does say something for the integrity of the site.

BST Auctions are the only one I've ever seen do that - I wish they all did it as well, but my skeptical side feels it may not be to their advantage.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by DezHood

BST Auctions are the only one I've ever seen do that - I wish they all did it as well, but my skeptical side feels it may not be to their advantage.

Heritage does it, too.

[OldEnglishD]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

+0.2

I see what you did there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I can't remember which site it was, but there was a site that when I placed a bid, say $1,000, it actually noted that I was bidding $1,200 with the buyer's premium. I thought that was very helpful, and wish there was some way to require this. I'm sure it's not beneficial to the AH, since people may forget about the premium and bid more than they originally intended. But it does say something for the integrity of the site.

If people don't know the buyer's premium, they shouldn't be bidding. It isn't very hard to multiply by 1.2 or whatever.

[travrosty]

bottom line is, shop around.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If people don't know the buyer's premium, they shouldn't be bidding. It isn't very hard to multiply by 1.2 or whatever.

I always look up the premium before I bid, just saying it's helpful when listed while bidding. And I'm sure there have been people who forgot to take it into consideration.

It must have been Heritage where I saw that.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If people don't know the buyer's premium, they shouldn't be bidding. It isn't very hard to multiply by 1.2 or whatever.

I think what we were saying is that we appreciate the feature - the more transparency the better. By your reasoning, why put the buyer's premium on the web at all - it isn't very hard to pick up the phone and call and ask.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I live in CA, so sites like heritage and memory lane have an effective 30% premium with tax (8.5%) and shipping added in. It makes it hard to compete with guys bidding in states with no sales tax.

I believe from talking to someone at Heritage that *all bidders* will be charged sales tax. If not now, then very soon. They'd prefer to charge the buyers than to get in fights with individual states that want to collect.

In other words, we'll all get to suffer together.

Oh, and the point about consignors getting the short end of the stick with these increases is exactly right.

[BeanTown]

Not to get political, but if this Country would go to a "flat tax" or "fair tax" and tax everyone when they buy something, then you can eliminate the IRS. The taxable rate should be between 25-28 percent. Then people can bring home all the money they earn and when they "choose" to spend it, then they get taxed on it. It all works out the same.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Not to get political, but if this Country would go to a "flat tax" or "fair tax" and tax everyone when they buy something, then you can eliminate the IRS. The taxable rate should be between 25-28 percent. Then people can bring home all the money they earn and when they "choose" to spend it, then they get taxed on it. It all works out the same.

You'd have a lot more private sales with that system. Either that or every collector would have to get a re-sale license.

[glynparson]

Please so much was left out of this it's silly. Not even close to the whole discussion or effect it would have, and this isn't the place for that type of discussion.

[OldEnglishD]

Here's my method for keeping track of the buyer's premiums (Chrome Favorite's List):