Jeter SP Foil auction

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by BLongley

That's it, it's about the "moments"... nobody remembers that Koufax struggled his first 6 years of his 12 year career... everyone remembers his refusing to pitch on Yom Kippur, and leading the Dodgers to world championships... who cares about the fact Koufax only had 6 great years...

How about the guy that in 1999 batted .324, 47 HRs, and 148 RBI's. The same guy for his career had 3,020 hits, 569 HRs, 1835 RBIs, and batted .288.

What was his WAR in 1999? Should this player be in the Hall?

Can you guess who the player is.... Rafael Palmeiro....

Eh...I think it is disingenuous to post Palmeiro's stats without naming him, then asking if the player should be in the Hall of Fame. Palmeiro is one of the most notorious steroid guys of his era. There is a gigantic reason he is not in the HoF, and it has nothing at all to do with his numbers.

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Eh...I think it is disingenuous to post Palmeiro's stats without naming him, then asking if the player should be in the Hall of Fame. Palmeiro is one of the most notorious steroid guys of his era. There is a gigantic reason he is not in the HoF, and it has nothing at all to do with his numbers.

You think Palmerio would be in the Hall if he put up those numbers and didn't take steroids? I can't remember any big game moments with him and I grew up watching him and others... should Fred McGriff be in the Hall? He hit 493 HRs same as Lou Gehrig...

Palmerio proves my point exactly and there are others we can find and use if you want... Jeter played during an Era of steroid users and batted against pitchers taking them too... two players that Stach mentions as being better short stops than Jeter are notorious roid users too... Tejada and ARod...my point is that it's not all about the numbers and I did name Palmerio at the end... I'm just trying to let you all know how I'm thinking...

[steve B]

A few random thoughts on the last several posts.

Big game moments..... Meh, otherwise I'll be happy to see Kirk Gibson in the hall. Some of Jeters "big" moments were I felt overrated. he backed up a play and didn't lose focus staying with the play. Yep, that's what a major leaguer does.
dive into the stands after a ball? Yep, same deal.
Both very good plays, and on the other side, I saw another Yankee player in the late 70's early 80's make an almost identical dive into the stands at Fenway and lose the ball, his hat, glove, and nearly jersey.... Yes, Jeter got a bit more respect. they also got out of the way, which is why he hit his head on the seat.... Hmmm ... respect?

Banks and Yount didn't win world series etc.
Don't you think that says more about their teams than them?
If it was all about one guy, the 78 series could have been decided by the Allstar break, instead of after that other shortstop who won't be named hit just his 5th HR of the year in the last game/extra game of the regular season.

There's a reason we chanted "Nomars better" as much as a year or two after Nomar got traded, even at the point where he just wasn't better anymore.


I do have to say that even though he was a Yankee, I did respect Jeter and how he played the game as well as his overall attitude. When he was asked about being booed in Boston for so long he said the fans of the two cities were a lot alike, and that being booed meant that the fans of the other team recognized you were actually pretty good as they usually didn't bother doing that to the bad players. It's pretty hard to dislike a guy who plays hard and seems to understand the fans too.

[BLongley]

"he backed up a play and didn't lose focus staying with the play. Yep, that's what a major leaguer does."

Go watch those plays again and I'd be curious if you said the same thing...

As I mentioned I'm a Yankee and Jeter fan so I know I'm biased, but I will recognize other great plays by players when they are great!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by BLongley

"he backed up a play and didn't lose focus staying with the play. Yep, that's what a major leaguer does."

Go watch those plays again and I'd be curious if you said the same thing...

As I mentioned I'm a Yankee and Jeter fan so I know I'm biased, but I will recognize other great plays by players when they are great!

Most pros can make really great plays. Didn't catch the time on many of them, but the ones at 1:06 and 2:10 are particularly nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRUu7yNmLXo

A few more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5qbaKuai7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U5Yu8y0LmU

The one here at 1:13 is really similar to another play of Jeters that was raved about as the "greatest play ever"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgL91zBVLo


None of that is to say that Jeter wasn't an excellent player and fielder. Some of the plays that are his best were I think a product of having a lot of awareness of where the throw or play in general was going and the ability to both see that and put himself in the place he needed to be to have any chance of making the play work. That's something that isn't really teachable and doesn't always rely on raw athletic ability.

[BLongley]

Ok, here is Jeter just backing up the relay in the ALDS (Yanks down 2 games to 0 on verge of elimination)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ApoJk9X7Vto


Here is an ALCS play
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oxzR0RKRWTQ

I get it you don't want to post Jeters, you want to post the top plays from around the league over different years. You're a Red Sox fan it's tough to do! But it is a compliment to Jeter that you had to search for greatest plays in history to find similar plays.

The dive against the Red Sox:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=seC63AEk4-8

Originally Posted by steve B

Most pros can make really great plays. Didn't catch the time on many of them, but the ones at 1:06 and 2:10 are particularly nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRUu7yNmLXo

A few more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5qbaKuai7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U5Yu8y0LmU

The one here at 1:13 is really similar to another play of Jeters that was raved about as the "greatest play ever"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgL91zBVLo


None of that is to say that Jeter wasn't an excellent player and fielder. Some of the plays that are his best were I think a product of having a lot of awareness of where the throw or play in general was going and the ability to both see that and put himself in the place he needed to be to have any chance of making the play work. That's something that isn't really teachable and doesn't always rely on raw athletic ability.

[BLongley]

And here is Jeter making a tough play on Big Papi at second

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KKGs-Jzy09M

[WillBBC]

I always found this play by Jeter to be his most impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Yt8r9ybS8

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BLongley

You think Palmerio would be in the Hall if he put up those numbers and didn't take steroids? I can't remember any big game moments with him and I grew up watching him and others... should Fred McGriff be in the Hall? He hit 493 HRs same as Lou Gehrig...

Palmerio proves my point exactly and there are others we can find and use if you want... Jeter played during an Era of steroid users and batted against pitchers taking them too... two players that Stach mentions as being better short stops than Jeter are notorious roid users too... Tejada and ARod...my point is that it's not all about the numbers and I did name Palmerio at the end... I'm just trying to let you all know how I'm thinking...

500 HR and 3000 Hits, yeah Palmeiro is in no doubt.