2 t206 proofs of same card?

[Aaron Seefeldt]

I was surprised to find 2 different proofs of the same Jacklitsch card in the t206 set...

Question to the t206 experts, how is it possible? Did the printer not accept the 1st proof so he made another?

[botport]

Do you have another scan of the 001 sgc card ?

With the similar diamond cut I am not sure they are different cards.

[swarmee]

Why do you think there would only be one proof per card? Most of the T206 printing sheets had 4-7 of the same card on it. Plus there's a bunch of reasons why they might print multiple proof sheets. I think your premise is mistaken.

[Baseball Rarities]

Those are different cards.

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Why do you think there would only be one proof per card? Most of the T206 printing sheets had 4-7 of the same card on it. Plus there's a bunch of reasons why they might print multiple proof sheets. I think your premise is mistaken.

My knowledge of the printing process is limited, so it's a question on my part, hoping to learn. You say there's a bunch of reasons why they might print multiple proof sheets yet you don't mention any... so why? It's a proof to be approved before the final run, no?

[MVSNYC]

http://t206resource.com/Proofs%20Gallery.html

Actually, looks like there's 3 proofs of Jacklitsch. The first of the two pictured on T206 Resource is different than the two pictured above.

They did print some multiples. As artwork gets reviewed and changes are made, they'd need more than one round of proof review.

Also, there's several players that have Type 1 & Type 2 cards of the same pose...see REA's latest auction. No name versus having name, and often the artwork is slightly different between the two.

But, alas, I have heard there's probably less than 50 total T206 proofs that exist still today, so still uber rare.

[swarmee]

Well, welcome to the boards. There are a bunch of threads where people are putting together the theoretical "printing sheets" based on the cards that have names on top or parts of other cards showing on them.
Here are some reasons they would print multiple proof sheets:
1) Validate that the colors are all coming through in the right locations.
2) They would have different proof sheets for different print groups (Sweet Caporal 150 would be different from 350 which would be different from 460). And then ones for each brand maybe?
3) Validate that team changes were made on the plates.
4) Maybe calibrating for the day?

[Jobu]

These are definitely different cards - check the right edge at the top and the crop on the bottom right of one but not the other. Also, unless the scan is off, one is missing the peach layer.

There are some T206 proofs with multiple copies known, some are type 1 and type 2 where there was a design change while others have multiples of the same card. Some have the name missing as well. The Resource has a gallery that has some of them:

http://t206resource.com/Proofs%20Gallery.html

I think the story is that all of these walked into a show on the 70s or 80s, including an Eddie Collins with bat and a few (?) Southern Leaguers that were never actually printed for some reason (I think Olbermann owns those).

As for the multiple cards, these could have been printed with multiples on single sheets as they were later in the production or they could have been printed in a different way, without a lot of multiples. There is a Wagner proof strip that was found in one of Honus Wagner's uniform pants pockets in his attic:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...brings-316250/

This is a 5-card strip, though obvious doesn't tell us how big the full sheet was or how it was laid out.

[steve B]

Yes, there are different types of proofs.
Some printers would do different types or more types even during the same era. The place I worked did almost no proofing at all. Topps did a wide array of sorts of proofs. That may have more to do with how many approvals were needed.


The first ones for T206 would probably be proofs of the art for an individual card. One for each color, plus the combinations or a few combinations. That would make sure the master was what they wanted, and that everything lined up well. There are proof books for a lot of cigar box labels that show notes on changes they wanted, Unfortunately I don't think the ones made for T206 Survived.

The next step would be printing transfers from the masters. They would need several of each color, as the transfers were used to lay out the stone. The proofing marks at the midpoints of each side were used during layout to assure stuff was in the right spot and not tilted. After layout they were erased. Most cards show remnants of them, usually very small, sometimes more noticeable. It also varies by the exact position on the plate, so it's very possible to have two of the same card that are very slightly different.

Before that erasing, they would have printed full sheet proofs to make sure the stones were all properly laid out, and didn't have any huge errors. If they were ok, the marks were erased and the stones would be sent to the pressroom for production to begin.

Any made for daily press adjustment wouldn't have the large layout marks we see on the proofs. I believe most of the scraps out there are from the initial setting up of the press.

Steve B

[obcbeatle]

Originally Posted by Jobu

There is a Wagner proof strip that was found in one of Honus Wagner's uniform pants pockets in his attic:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...brings-316250/

This is a 5-card strip, though obvious doesn't tell us how big the full sheet was or how it was laid out.

Wow ... I didn't know about this strip. Very cool! Interesting how Bowerman survived so well in Wagner's pants pocket ... while the others didn't. Still a neat piece. Thanks for sharing!