Pen/Pencil marks

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Posted By: Dylan

I know this has been touched upon before in the forum. I have a couple cards with pen/pencil marks I'd like to erase without damaging the cards. I have no intention of selling the cards but I'd like to display them. I remember hearing that normal pencil erasers are much too soft and are no good. I remember an architecture eraser being brought up as an option. What have you found best that works, and does card issue factor in at all?

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Posted By: Mike

It is my opinion that pencil marks should just be left alone. Trying to correct them, for the most part doesn't fool anyone, they are still there, at least the indentation from the weight and pressure of the pencil is, and the marks left from the erasure are there, and in many cases lighten the area where the marks were located, in comparison to the surrounding area, and trying to correct them, in many cases, ends up doing more harm than good. As far as ink goes, just leave it alone.

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

As an architect I can tell you that there are 2 types of erasers that will work well the first is the older "gum" eraser which works well on paper and cardboard. The second type is the newer "plastic" eraser which works well on paper, cardboard and plastic - good for the new shiny stuff. I can also tell you that alas, architects now use a mouse.

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Posted By: leon

My idea is that any mark should/can be taken off if you want to. I use Mars Plastic erasers. DON'T try to use a regular pencil eraser. I think it's sort of opposite of what you said though, Dylan. You want it to be soft to crumble and not hurt the card. The Mars Plastic Erasers are white and crumble very well. It's all I use and they work fine. Don't ever try erasing something on a wet (soaked) card though....then you will be erasing the paper off...ouch....With all of that said I think a card in vg or less condition can have MORE character if the mark is left, depending on where/what it is....Hope this helps....

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Posted By: Mike

As a followup to Leon's post, yes there are ways to remove marks. It's done every hour of every day. I forgot to include, that I am "against" card tampering in every way. That is partly what drove my comment. Leon is correct, if someone wants to do it, that is their right. I have no problem with that. I just simply am against it. I own one card that has been tampered with. A 34 Goudey, gehrig. It went from a grade 3, to a beautiful 5, by having a crease removed. I'm not selling it, and if I did, I would tell the buyer. As I would want him to tell me, if the roles were reversed. But for those who are pro tampering, please do not come after me with a hammer and sickle, until after the holidays. It's just my harmless opinion.

Edited to remove a previous scan, with junk on it. I can't get it off

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Posted By: leon

I am with you. I think we can all have our opinions and peacefully coexist. At least I hope so. I even have a few cards slabbed, lower grade, with the pencil marks still on them. Like I say they give them character. On the other hand my PSA 6MK N172 Comisky is much better off in an SGC 80 holder after the erasure of a super light, tiny, pencil mark on the back. It was so light it left no indention at all. Take care..(sorry, I know I have shown everything before)

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Mike,

Interesting on the psa 3 going to a 5--while the alteration of 8s gets the publicity this is the kind of thing that is becoming increasingly common.

Needless to say I think that getting rid of pen/pencil marks is wrong but I don't want to have another 350 post thread about it.

Jim

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Posted By: Mike

The Gehrig had a light crease right across the middle. After a few weeks with Dr. Marcus Welby, it went away. Looks perfect. And after a year, hasn't returned. Even under a top notch magnifying glass, it's invisible. PSA then gave it a 5. As stated, it is the only card I have that has been tampered with. If my computer scanner would work, I would show you. But alas, it doesn't. I'm 100% against doctoring cards. But to each their own. I can assure you that it ain't for sale. But any purchaser would be told. I am a collector and not a dealer. My son will be inheriting everything, and he is aware of it.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...but Jim, everytime you make a statement that you cannot back up, I am going to call you on it.

"Interesting on the psa 3 going to a 5--while the alteration of 8s gets the publicity this is the kind of thing that is becoming increasingly common."

Why do you think this is becoming "increasingly common"?

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Paul,

Beacause thats what the dealers I am talking to tell me.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...how do they know?

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Posted By: JK

you know, this was a simple thread asking for an opinion about something that the majority of board members see no problem with. Why must it turn into chapter 2 of the "is it altering or not" soap opera?

Since it is, here is what I have to say:

Jim - the only way your dealers could possibly know that is if they are doing the altering. Of course, in all likelihood, they are simply telling a good customer what he wants to hear.

Mike - no offense, but your comments are better suited for another thread. We dont need to make someone feel guilty because he wants to try to make his card look nicer via a method most approve of.

Leon - That comisky is obviously tainted and you should sell it to me for no more than $100 to rid yourself of the guilt you must feel having erased that mark.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

JK,

What I want to hear????

What I want to hear is that the grading services are catching all the altering. It doesn't bring joy to my heart to hear that the altering of low-to-mid grade cards is a bigger epidemic than high grade.

Jim

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Posted By: JimCrandell

JK,

Also I don't think that its been established that the majority of board members have no problem with this--particularly if they plan to resell the card.

Jim

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Posted By: JK

Jim,

There has already been a poll on the issue. 65% of those who responded thought erasing was ok.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1156962525/last-1157002068/final+results

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Posted By: Mike

If you read what I said, I said I have no problem with folks altering cards. And I meant it. people can do what ever they want. I simply said I don't do it. I really couldn't care less what any one else does. Early on, I simply said I personally don't erase anything. leon made his appropriate comment. All is well. So....why come after me? isn't that what we are all very tired of lately? Can't someone state an opinion without a tribunal shooting at them? This is not pointed at you. I am again simply giving my opinion. Again....alter to your hearts content. Paint em' erase em' flatten em' sharpen corners, shoot em' with shotguns,,,,use em' for coasters. That is very very very OK. I choose not to. By the way, if you recall I bought a card from you last summer. Nice card. I very much appreciate it. It is an important part of my collection. I'll never sell it. Thanks again.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Well i had hoped that including the fact that I had no plans of selling the cards that i were to remove pencil marks on would keep this thread on point. In any case thank you Leon for the advice, where can i pick these up, is there a webpage you use?

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Posted By: fkw

Anyone who says they have never tried to erase a small pencil mark on the back, is lying

The way I look at it, you may want to try to erase it. But if it is stuborn and doesnt seem to erase easily, then give up and leave it alone. Some old pencil doesnt erase too easily and you may end up messing the surface up with all that rubbing.

That pencil mark on the back of 90% of the 1921 Herpolsheimer cards doesnt come off like you think it might

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Posted By: greg

From another perspective......

A 1914 scorecard, like the one I posted on the Vintage Museum website, but in bad shape, although scored for Ruth's first major league game, just sold on Leland's for a total of $8300, a tad bit more (maybe $7500 more) than it's worth without game provenance.

Anyone have a pencil on them? I don't need the eraser.

(only kidding....)

Greg

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Posted By: davidcycleback

In restoration there are two areas where altering the item can be considered okay: 1) If the restoration helps the item. For example, some antique prints are removed and rematted as the original acidic matt will damage the print. A fragile and somewhat torn movie poster may be linnen back to prevent further damage. 2) If the material removed is not an original part of the item. For example, a scrap of paper or glue is not an original part of the card. By removing a piece of scrap paper from a 1950 Bowman you are removing something that wasn't a part of the card when it left the factory. Ink and pencil marks fall under this category. The practical problem is that it can be tricky to removed the glue or ink without doing something to the card itself. As already said, if you remove a pencil mark you may leave erasure marks. If bottles of toxic chemicals and heat applications and laser treaments are what it takes to remove an ink stain, some might find it best to leave the ink stain and card as is.

I'm not saying whether I think restoration is good or bad, but I've long found it goofy that people consider a piece of scrapbook paper original to a card. If someone finds a 1975 Topps pasted to the back cover of a dictionary that doesn't mean it came out of the wax pack that way. And if your kid old spills chocolate pudding on your T206 that doesn't can't mean you aren't allowed to whipe off the card. Note that much of the scrapbook paper on cards was the result of kids similar to yours pasting the cards in scrapbooks.

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Posted By: leon

Recently I bought a nice, original oil painting off of ebay. I got the painting and it had come out of it's frame in shipping. The frame had small nails and they scratched some paint off of the painting, around the sides but not on the main part of the picture. I brought it to a local art gallery that deals in fairly high end paintings....up to around 100k...not the super expensive ones. They looked at it for about 3-4 minutes and said they had someone they use to fix paintings, it would be about $150 to repair approximately 8" of scratches, all together. They also said it wouldn't hurt the value of the painting whatsoever...since the scratches were around the periphery....Totally different in our world....

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Posted By: davidcycleback

There's a difference between a large painting or poster you plan on hanging on the livingroom wall and a 1.5x2.5 inches piece of cardboard store in a box.

I had a college art conservation student working on a paper email me and ask me how baseball card collectors conserve ('treat' as she said) their cards. I said, "They don't," explaining that most collectors don't want their cards conserved or treated beyond being put in plastic holders.

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Posted By: Dylan

There are two different cards Id like to remove some marks on and they are T206's. I want to practice on something first, is there anything that i can write/erase on that is similer to the T206 card material? Also one card has pencil on it and the other actually has some black marker on it. Would a gum/plastic eraser work for both, or only the pencil marks? Is there a different method of removing marker/pin marks or will the same eraser work fine for both? This is my first time so i want to make sure i get it right.

Please no comments on the "ethics" of this subject. I would just like to get sound advice from those in the know. Like i said before i have no intention of selling these cards, and if i were to at some point it will be disclosed.

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Posted By: Joe D.

why anyone would be against pencil erasing?

If the pencil mark is not supposed to be there in the first place, and can be easily removed.... I say erase away.


If some kid lightly pencilled on the back of a T206 Wagner "Metallica Rulz" or "I love Twinkees"- I think it wold be a shame to leave it there if an eraser can easily take it away.

if a pencil mark was on one of my cards (and it bothered me)... and I could easily erase... I would.

just my opinion.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dylan- I don't think you are going to get black marker off the back, so don't even try. Regarding the pencil marks, just do it lightly at first and don't apply too much pressure until you feel a little more confident. I am assuming that you are not trying this first on a Cobb, but instead on a common. If you make a mistake with a common, you're out $10. Life goes on. And I wish to add that I believe erasing a pencil mark is an acceptable practice.

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Posted By: Dylan

well no there not exactly commons, but it isnt a Cobb either. I will leave the marker alone and tread carefully with the pencil. Thanks Barry and Leon for advice.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Pencil marks are easily removed with a soap eraser and most are not noticed under 10X magnification.