1952T Mantle on Ebay being touted as original

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Posted By: vetekbob

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73435&item=5186704478&rd=1
Very clever indeed but I hate to see the look on the high bidders face when they realize they have been had by a tricky fake not to mention obvious shill bidding to get the number of bids over 30 to get on the hotlist as well as driving up the dollar value as soon as possible.

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Posted By: Tim James

This one doesn't look that bad to me.I've handled a fair # of early Topps and Bowman,so I was just wondering what stands out to you that this is a reprint? As to my opinion,I would first point to the fact that it is not slabbed.Is there anything that you would add to that?

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Posted By: dennis

the card is real. also, i think broadway rick is thru with shill bidding. just wonder why it's not graded?

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Posted By: Tim James

I think the key to spotting real cards from this set is the "recycled" paper look on the reverse.There is a certain gray there that would be hard to duplicate.I would also add,if you have seen a slabbed card of this kind,the black border has distinct variations in the corners.Look at other scans and see if they are the same.Reprints tend to clean up things like this.

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Posted By: steve k

I don't trust this seller as far as I can throw him. You'll buy the Mantle, it'll be fake, he'll come up with some excuse not to give your money back, and so what he gets a neg but he's got your money. Don't walk, RUN away from this auction.

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Posted By: Tim Mayer

i am pretty sure the card is good, but i passed because of the seller rep and because I figured it has been recolored or trimmed or has a hole or something to it, otherwise why wouldn't it be graded..others said it but thats was my initial impression...

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Posted By: vetekbob

I have been checking over this card as best one card with just a scan and while it looks to be fine on the front and back, I feel that this card will not pass inspection via psa, sgc, or gai and I feel there will be an issue with the size of the card. Granted I dont have a 10x loop with the card in hand obviously. If a card has been messed with in any way, to me personally that is the same as putting an unoriginal card up unless the seller states clearly in the auction that there was a problem with the card. Others will probably disagree with me on there being a problem with the card and if it turns out later that I was wrong, then I will gladly eat my words and take the heat.
The other things that bother me on this is that they state they have handled many mantles before. If that is the case and the card is as they claim it to be, and knowing what higher end graded mantles can bring, why didnt they send it in to psa or sgc, or even gai asap if they were so sure of themselves knowing that if they did such it would erase any doubt as to there being a problem with the card.
If the high bidder sends in the card to PSA... and there is a problem, what will prevent the seller from saying how do we know you actually sent in the same card you won from us and leave the bidder high and dry?
The seller does not answer email from their auctions and I can attest to that personally as well as one can see such from their feedback. The high bidder has no protection whats so ever on this auction that I can see. Neither does the seller say that 100% of the grading fees as well as the final auction price of the card will be refunded if the card is rejected by PSA... when it clearly states in their listing " All cards, sets, and autographs on eBay come with14 day return privilege" yet they make it clear that this particular card cannot be returned unless otherwise specifically stated for that one reason. You tell me. Am I way off base here? Am I being overly critical? I guess only time will tell on this particular auction but I do feel it has been altered.

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Posted By: Tim James

I wouldn't disagree with you on this one.The neg. feedback in the last 12 months took a sharp rise.In most cases,the cards that are being passed off as real but are reprints,are printed for the enjoyment of the collector by companys that distribute them as reprints.Original printing flaws tend to be "cleaned".Don't get me wrong,I wouldn't bid on this,but if you are familiar with printing and card stock you can spot these things quickly.

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Posted By: Anonymous

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=5186704478

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Posted By: al davis

the lower part of the right-hand side of the card has been shaved. if you close your eyes you can smell the barbasol.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The seller is properly known as Broadway Rick's Scam Zone. He was busted for shilling his auctions and featured prominently on MSNBC and other networks for his shady character. When I firt got back in the hobby I bought a number of m116s from him. When I discovered they were trimmed, he didn't even flinch when I demanded a partial rebate for the trimming. He just cut me a check adn did apologize for not noting they were trimmed. This guy is too savvy to leave all the money on the table that slabbing this card would bring. There is something obviously wrong that he is not disclosing.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: vetekbob

The seller states that the high bidder can only return the card if it wont get graded by PSA or whomever but he didnt state what constitutes grading. For all the high bidder knows, they mean graded as in a psa 4, 5 or what have you when in the sellers obtuse wording and mind they may mean presenting it to the grading company is in fact grading of the card and if it does come back as trimmed as I think it will, the buyer has no recourse that I can see given the wording or the lack there of in the auction listing.
If you check the bidding action out on the card as what brought up, it doesnt make sense either. The person kept bidding repeatedly over and over and for what reason? Checking out the past bidding history on the high bidder, they have been bidding on and have won low dollar auctions. In looking at the history they are aware of how the bidding works in an auction and yet they kept driving the price up on this particular auction when they made sure not to do so in any of the other auctions including their very first one. This reeks to me as someone that knows the seller in some way and is helping to drive the price up or at least show that there is good interest. To me that is another form of shill bidding.

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Posted By: David Yoken

Not only is the right border trimmed, but the black line on the top does not jet
out every so slightly like in all real 52 Topps Mantles.

Remember, if it seems too good to be true, it generally is. This guy should be ashamed of himself.

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Posted By: Julie

The bidding pattern cannot be asertained, because if the repeat bidder were bidding to keep up with another bidder, only the other bidder's high bid would show AT THE END. Yiou can see the winning bidder bid BEFORE the other guys bid up under him.

That being said, the card looks fine, but I wouldn't buy a newspasper from Broadway Rick. And you guys always get exspensive cards slabbed before you sell them.

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Posted By: Andy

The scan appears to be of a real type 1 '52 Topps Mantle. There are 2 variations of this card. The right border does not stick out on a type 1 Mantle. That is the type 2 card only. The scan is of a real card. Now, it still could be shaved, colored, pressed, cleaned, soaked, etc etc etc.

Andy

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Posted By: dan mckee

This card is real but one poster is correct, something is wrong with or Rick would have had it graded. He is no idiot but would not pass on a fake as real. I would say plan on getting a 1 or an authentic grade on it.