Another T206 Ghost Print Mystery Solved

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Posted By: J Hull

Last spring I bought this T206 scrap card, and since then I’ve been trying like heck to figure out who the ghost image was and what set it was related to.




Well, happily I can report that the mystery’s been solved. The ghost portrait on the reverse of the Ford T206 comes from the T68 Heroes of History set of 50. The image is of The Irish Patriot Robert Emmett. And the epaulet-like ghost image from the card above it is from the card for General George Custer.




A few months back there was a thread here inviting folks to show off their ghost prints, and another collector posted a T206 scrap ghost that was similar to mine. I saved the scan and have been able to match it to the T68 card for Inspector Byrnes.




I thought it was pretty cool to finally figure it out. Haven't seen too many T206s with non-T206 printing on them.

BTW, the T68 set was distributed in 1911 by the American Tobacco Company in the Miners Extra Smoking Tobacco, Natural Leaf Scrap, Pan Handle Scrap, and Royal Bengal Little Cigars brands.

It's hard for me to imagine a more conclusive piece of evidence for proving that the cards inserted in cigarette packs by the ATC were printed in one location (by the American Litho Company) and not printed at the factories where the cigarettes were manufactured/packaged. No T68s list Factory 30 of NY on their back, which is where the Tolstoi cards came from. T68s list Factory 5 of Maryland, Factory 6 of Ohio, and Factories 2, 10, and 17 of NJ.

Jamie

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Posted By: Trae R.

Jamie,

I love this stuff! Great work on figuring it all out. Thank you for sharing!

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The T206 Ford is consistent with a 1911 issue date for the T68 cards. Ford is in the very last (460-only)
Series of the T206's. And, this is great stuff, many of us have always believed that American Litho (based
in NY) printed everything for ATC. I think not only the cards (of any set), but the cigarette packs in flat
sheet form were produced in NY. Then cards, packaging, etc. were transported by rail to the various Tobacco
Factories where they completed the final product.

TED Z

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Posted By: MVSNYC

cool stuff, great research.

ted- do we know the locations specifically in NY where the cards were printed, would be cool to see what's there now...maybe an abandoned warehouse with stacks of T206 sheets?

seriously, is any specific knowledge known regarding this?

MS

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Posted By: barry arnold

great work, Jamie.
fascinating detective work.

many thanks

best,

barry

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Posted By: Paul

Very interesting. If the factory designation on the card does not indicate where the card was printed, what does it indicate?

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Posted By: Trae R.

Paul,

..."where the cigarettes were manufactured/packaged" I believe is the answer to your question.




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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

you asked......
"ted- do we know the locations specifically in NY where the cards were printed, would be cool to see
what's there now...maybe an abandoned warehouse with stacks of T206 sheets?"

American Lithograph was situated in a 13-story building (built in 1895) at 230 Park Ave South in NYC.
Check-it out next time you are in the neighborhood; but, I doubt you'll find anything.

TED Z

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

The old building here...

http://www.costar.com/News/Article.aspx?id=D2DABD195E51C45AF1B55E5DEF2E78C5

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Posted By: barrysloate

I can subway over there today and see if there are any uncut sheets still lying around.

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Posted By: Jeff Shepherd

I believe the building still has "American Litho Co." in stone above the front entrance. Seeing as the building sold recently for $231 million, it's interesting to think they probably had at least that in mint Wagners in that place around 1909.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

thanks ted...

barry- let's see who makes it there first! scott, jeff, hank- race you there!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Michael- you're closer, you'll get there first. But you do have to find them- maybe they are hidden in the walls and being used for insulation, thousands of them lumped together!

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Posted By: MVSNYC

barry- my hope was that there would be a huge stack of mint sheets in a back room...i'd arrive just as they were about to throw them in the dumpster...and i would of course, rescue them from the dump!

oh well, it's fun to daydream...

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Posted By: barrysloate

So they've been sitting there for a hundred years and you show up five minutes before they finally decided to toss them...not very likely!

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Guys,
I think this is the picture you are looking for....





PS It would make a nice entrance for the "Baseball Card hall of Fame"..


Be well Brian

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

I wonder what they used to insulate the walls when they did remodeling in 1912?

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Jamie,

Nice work. I agree that this supports centralized production of ATC cards.

Scot

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

James B. Duke (ATC) and Joseph Knapp, who bought up many existing lithograph companies in 1892 and formed the American Lithographic
Company (in NYC), were close friends and also business associates. So. we can assume that Am. Litho. not only printed the T206's....
but, all the Premium cards (Flags, Military men, etc.) that were inserted in tobacco packs.

TED Z