Bill Russell's Mt. Rushmore response

[Bocabirdman]

James needs to learn a bit of NBA history. I don't think he cracks the Top 50 YET, let alone the top 4. Mr. Russell had this to say:

“Hey, thank you for leaving me off your Mount Rushmore. I’m glad you did. Basketball is a team game, it’s not for individual honors. I won back-to-back state championships in high school, back-to-back NCAA championships in college. I won an NBA championship my first year in the league, an NBA championship in my last year, and NINE in between. That, Mr. James, is etched in stone.”

Response, Lebron?

[sam majors]

The same year Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double, Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points and 27 rebounds per game. Who was the league MVP that year?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

James needs to learn a bit of NBA history. I don't think he cracks the Top 50 YET, let alone the top 4. Mr. Russell had this to say:

“Hey, thank you for leaving me off your Mount Rushmore. I’m glad you did. Basketball is a team game, it’s not for individual honors. I won back-to-back state championships in high school, back-to-back NCAA championships in college. I won an NBA championship my first year in the league, an NBA championship in my last year, and NINE in between. That, Mr. James, is etched in stone.”

Response, Lebron?

Lebron not in the top 50? Seriously? He is in any serious top 10 already. And it's hard to fault his choices -- Bird Magic Jordan and Oscar. I would never discount Russell's greatness I am a huge fan, but he did play in a league with very few teams and the Celtics were far more sophisticated about selecting talent than anyone else back then, so it's hard to compare his feats to those of players who played later.

[Prof_Plum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Lebron not in the top 50? Seriously? He is in any serious top 10 already. And it's hard to fault his choices -- Bird Magic Jordan and Oscar. I would never discount Russell's greatness I am a huge fan, but he did play in a league with very few teams and the Celtics were far more sophisticated about selecting talent than anyone else back then, so it's hard to compare his feats to those of players who played later.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you but if you put a premium on big men, Lebron could be left out of a top 10. In no particular order:
Jordan
Wilt
Kareem
Hakeem
Duncan
D Robinson
Bird
Magic
Oscar
Kobe
Shaq
Russell

I did like Russell's comment and Lebron on more than one occasion has put his foot in his mouth

[bnorth]

I may be in the minority here, I think he is being a bitter old man because he was left off Lebrons list. He says it is a team sport then adds I won this and I won that and I I I. I think he is one of the greatest ever just don't say it is a team sport then add all the I I I"s in there.

On a basketball note I am rooting for my favorite player Alonzo Mourning to make the HOF this year. If not for his kidney problems he would have been in the top 20 of all-time greats. He is #1 in my book.

[Bocabirdman]

Lebron is a great ball player but has no chance at Top 4 in the history of the game. Hell, Elvin Hayes would have eaten Lebron's lunch and had him thanking E for doing so. Just ask Lew Alcindor. Hayes out played him in the '68 Houston/UCLA game. Also, any Top 4 that doesn't include Wilt Chamberlain is just plain silly.

higher.jpg

This sky hook block-to-be was at the end of Wilt's career. The only reason he was a terrible free throw shooter is that they changed the rules to keep him from dunking them.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I may be in the minority here, I think he is being a bitter old man because he was left off Lebrons list. He says it is a team sport then adds I won this and I won that and I I I. I think he is one of the greatest ever just don't say it is a team sport then add all the I I I"s in there.

On a basketball note I am rooting for my favorite player Alonzo Mourning to make the HOF this year. If not for his kidney problems he would have been in the top 20 of all-time greats. He is #1 in my book.

Even in a team sport there are players that make the team and everyone around them better. When I was watching a lot of basketball it was Bird, Johnson and Jordan.

Bird and Jordan both led their teams to Playoff wins when they weren't at their best, playing a totally different game than usual.
Johnson came of the bench as a rookie in the finals
"The Lakers compiled a 60–22 record in the regular season and reached the 1980 NBA Finals,[37] in which they faced the Philadelphia 76ers, who were led by forward Julius Erving. The Lakers took a 3–2 lead in the series, but Abdul-Jabbar, who averaged 33 points a game in the series,[38] sprained his ankle in Game 5 and could not play in Game 6.[35] Paul Westhead decided to start Johnson at center in Game 6; Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals in a 123–107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game.[35] Johnson became the only rookie to win the NBA Finals MVP award,[35] and his clutch performance is still regarded as one of the finest in NBA history.[

Russell is in the same sort of group. I didn't see him play, but dad did. Plus we have film from then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40iKnaUjz_w

At I think 2:58 is the end of the play where he went full court to block a fast break layup.

Russell and Chamberlain I think were both modern players playing well ahead of their time. It's hard to say how they'd do today except that they'd still be among the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2iR470UVh4

So there's a few pretty solid contenders for top 5.
Many of the other players mentioned would fill out a top 10 pretty easily, and I'd include Dr J too.

I just don't see Lebron being that good yet. He's a great player, but hasn't really shown much in the way of going beyond himself and finding a way to win even when his typical style of play isn't working. The players like Bird, Johnson, Jordan, etc also played well against each other. And the video above shows how Russell and Chamberlain played against each other. Lebron has been great against ???? He's pretty much one of the only current players even mentioned as a possible top 10.
I do see top 50, maybe top 25.


Maybe a few years from now I'll see it differently, but not yet.

Steve B

[Exhibitman]

James isn't even clearly the best forward let alone a top 4 of all time all positions; hey LJ, ever heard of Elgin Baylor or Karl Malone? As for Mt. Rushmore, his omitting at least one of Russell, Chamberlain or Abdul-Jabbar is just plain ignorant.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Prof_Plum

Not necessarily disagreeing with you but if you put a premium on big men, Lebron could be left out of a top 10. In no particular order:
Jordan
Wilt
Kareem
Hakeem
Duncan
D Robinson
Bird
Magic
Oscar
Kobe
Shaq
Russell

I did like Russell's comment and Lebron on more than one occasion has put his foot in his mouth

David Robinson over LeBron? Cmon.

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...-around-great/