PSA will authenticate anything

[Shoeless Moe]

I'm thinking of sending in my McDonald's Monopoly game pieces to get slabbed

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Amer...item3ccd5d2ff6

[drc]

As long as the item is correctly identified, I say.

[glynparson]

They offer to grade/authenticate tickets. Someone wished to use that service for a Chico and the man ticket. PSA obliged I fail to see how this is a negative against PSA. If you want to complain about someone choosing to slab a chico and the man ticket I think that has more credibility than bashing PSA for doing what it says it will do and what a customer requested it to do.

[toybulldog]

Originally Posted by glynparson

They offer to grade/authenticate tickets. Someone wished to use that service for a Chico and the man ticket. PSA obliged I fail to see how this is a negative against PSA. If you want to complain about someone choosing to slab a chico and the man ticket I think that has more credibility than bashing PSA for doing what it says it will do and what a customer requested it to do.

I wonder how many "Chico and ther Man" tickets they had to compare this one to in order to come to the conclusion that it is authentic? If they didn't have any then is PSA doing what they say they will do?

Or is it authentic "just because"?

If it makes them money then why not "slab it"?

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by toybulldog

I wonder how many "Chico and ther Man" tickets they had to compare this one to in order to come to the conclusion that it is authentic? If they didn't have any then is PSA doing what they say they will do?

Or is it authentic "just because"?

If it makes them money then why not "slab it"?

Mark O,

I would say that is safely a 1/1 slab. I would also suspect that there is certainly no cottage industry of forgers knocking off Chico and the Man tickets to fool unsuspecting collectors out there...

[travrosty]

thats not the point, the point is they say they will do one thing, and we should expect they keep their word. if they dont have another one to compare against, how do they know its the real thing. they are authenticating, not guessing. authenticating means verifying that its real. what did they do to verify it?

[sports-rings]

I would say that is safely a 1/1 slab. I would also suspect that there is certainly no cottege industry of forgers knocking off Chico and the Man tickets to fool unsuspecting collectors out there...

While I agree with your comment, I don't believe that is the point of the original thread.

I am in the printing business and it would be so easy to create a knock-off in under three minutes, using thick paper and a high-end digital color printer that's designed to print postcards. I could create a near replica in minutes for under 10 cents.

Does PSA had a real ticket to compare? If I submitted my 10 cent replica, would they slab it too?

Is this one more example of many, where PSA takes the money and does no real analysis or not enough analysis? (see the recent PSA boxing thread for additional coverage of this issue).

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by travrosty

thats not the point, the point is they say they will do one thing, and we should expect they keep their word. if they dont have another one to compare against, how do they know its the real thing. they are authenticating, not guessing. authenticating means verifying that its real. what did they do to verify it?

Travis and Michael,
I definitely get the point. I was merely making light of the rediculousness of slabbing a Chico and the Man ticket. That's why I used the

[Shoeless Moe]

...they authenticated it as Authentic......no grade....maybe it was trimmed?

unfortunately this one does me no good, as I'm in the market for a PSA 5 or better Chico and the Man ticket. I'm gonna put it next to my PSA authenticated Bus Pass.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

...they authenticated it as Authentic......no grade....maybe it was trimmed?

unfortunately this one does me no good, as I'm in the market for a PSA 5 or better Chico and the Man ticket. I'm gonna put it next to my PSA authenticated Bus Pass.

LOL

[sports-rings]

Scott,

sorry I failed to see the humor in your post.

But, hey, if PSA could let a Wagner get through that turned out to be trimmed, is it a big deal if the Chico and The Man ticket was trimmed too?

By the way, has PSA said anything about the Bill Mastro admission that the Wagner card was trimmed and PSA slabbed it with a high grade?

[glynparson]

It's not an autograph. Stick to ripping them on their atrocious job of boxing authentication, whereyou are right. as I think in this case your dead wrong on needing an exemplar to authenticate a ticket or card. You need knowledge of said item yes an exempkar in hand no.

[drc]

I'm not a ticket expert and the idea of potentially faking unique and obscure tickets is a worthy discussion topic, but with many vintage printed or photographic items you don't require an exemplar to determine it's genuine. If you give me a unique 1880s litho trade card or photo, I can usually tell you that it's authentic without another to compare-- in part by taking out the microscope and examining the printing.

[sports-rings]

you don't require an exemplar to determine it's genuine.

Yes, you do require an exemplar. if a fake was made during the time period, using the same paper or card stock, with similar printing equipment, would that make the copy authentic?

Did PSA sit there and examine this ticket with a magnifying glass or loop and then do a paper analysis to determine it was real?

[sports-rings]

You need knowledge of said item

I'm not trying to start a fight with anyone so please don't get upset.

If they authenticate hundreds of sporting tickets I can believe they have a good knowledge of these kind of items.

But tickets to a television show? Does PSA have a database or notes or references on this subject matter?

It's like the post from several weeks ago: People at this site were asking if anyone could remember PSA sending an autograph back with an incomplete conclusion because of lack of exemplars, even on the most obscure autographs.

[drc]

I assume no one here knows how PSA goes about authenticating a ticket like this-- what are the methods, exemplars (if any), knowledge--, so I don't know how anyone here can knowledgeably criticize their methods.

The assumption here has been PSA didn't have an exemplar for this ticket, but that's nothing more than a guess. Tell me why the expert who examined this ticket couldn't have a large collection of sit com tickets for comparison? Presumably one becomes an expert in tickets by having accumulating a huge collection of tickets.

Did the examiner have an exemplar for this ticket? I don't know. How did he go about judging this ticket as authentic? I don't know.

Perhaps there was compelling provenance, such as it coming from a scrapbook which included snapshots of the submitter and vacationing family at the studio and set. Perhaps it came from the estate auction of a producer. I once got a small collection of 1970s-80s 'everyday fan' baseball game tickets from the estate auction of a former MLB GM. The collection also included his personalized executive's passes, so it wasn't hard to demonstrate the executive provenance.

[toybulldog]

Originally Posted by drc

I assume no one here knows how PSA goes about authenticating a ticket like this-- what are the methods, exemplars (if any), knowledge--, so I don't know how anyone here can knowledgeably criticize their methods.

The assumption here has been PSA didn't have an exemplar for this ticket, but that's nothing more than a guess. Tell me why the expert who examined this ticket couldn't have a large collection of sit com tickets for comparison? Presumably one becomes an expert in tickets by having accumulating a huge collection of tickets.

Did the examiner have an exemplar for this ticket? I don't know. How did he go about judging this ticket as authentic? I don't know.

Perhaps there was compelling provenance, such as it coming from a scrapbook which included snapshots of the submitter and vacationing family at the studio and set. Perhaps it came from the estate auction of a producer. I once got a small collection of 1970s-80s 'everyday fan' baseball game tickets from the estate auction of a former MLB GM. The collection also included his personalized executive's passes, so it wasn't hard to demonstrate the executive provenance.

I'm not knowledgeably criticizing their methods, I'm knowledgeably criticizing the fact that that call themselves "authenticators". PSA doesn't prove or serve to prove anything, they do not authenticate. I'm primarily an autograph collector, can anyone here show an autograph that they submitted and supply any proof of a "method" that was used by PSA to determine if their autograph is in fact authentic?



Proof exists that many of their "slabbed" boxing autographs are not authentic, the notion of a "method" could be a fairytale for all we know?

[packs]

These arguments are strange to me. They offer an opinion on things. If you ask ten guys what their opinions are on an object that could potentially make you some money, you're going to go with the opinion of the guy that most favors you and your endeavor and slam the guys who don't.

I wish this was the last thread like this but it won't be.

[travrosty]

they need an exemplar, not just a scan because an offset printer or a home printer can duplicate the ticket if you dont know the thickness, card stock, etc.

i am sure they have a lot of sitcom ticket examples over there at psa. please, really?

remember the autographed piece of canadian para-olympic athletes they certed?

i am sure they had exemplars of all those para-olympic athletes too, because who doesn't?

[Oldtix]

Like many of you, I get a thrill in holding an old ticket stub that allowed the original owner to witness a Babe Ruth home run or a Walter Johnson shutout. I get the same thrill from owning tickets to other events - big band concerts, Worlds Fairs, political speeches, and (you guessed it) radio and TV shows. I now own over 5,000 broadcast tickets. I refer to this as "my collection"; my family and friends refer to is as "my cry for help." But I digress...

There are many dealers who follow "If you slab it, they will come" business model. From time to time, sellers have used PSA to try to enhance the importance and worth of an item. PSA is apparently more than willing to support their wish. In general, because the value of old TV tickets is pretty low, there's not much downside to the practice.

But believe it or not, there are a few TV tickets that have been reprinted or counterfeited. Authentic tickets to the Beatles Ed Sullivan Show appearances have sold for over $10,000, and tickets for early Elvis Presley appearances aren't far behind. Tickets to I Love Lucy routinely sell for over $1,000 and as high as $5,000. There is a case to be made for a company to reliably authenticate such tickets. Case in point - the famous Elvis 1968 comeback TV special was cut from four different taping sessions, each will less than 200 audience members. A few years later, exact replicas of the tickets were printed as insert "extras" in an Elvis LP. These reprints are routinely sold on ebay as genuine to unsuspecting buyers. If memory serves, some of these have been slabbed. If you've bought one of these tickets, you're probably in for disappointment.

So the point is that the questions raised in previous posts are not hypothetical. In some cases, the false sense of security given by authentication isn't worth the plastic it's packed in unless the grading company does their homework.

For those who have made the effort to read this far, I reward you with a peek at my rare 1974 rookie season "Chico and the Man" ticket...and the ticket for the 1977 taping cancelled by the suicide of Freddie Prinze a few days earlier. Ain't Net54 grand?

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Oldtix

Like many of you, I get a thrill in holding an old ticket stub that allowed the original owner to witness a Babe Ruth home run or a Walter Johnson shutout. I get the same thrill from owning tickets to other events - big band concerts, Worlds Fairs, political speeches, and (you guessed it) radio and TV shows. I now own over 5,000 broadcast tickets. I refer to this as "my collection"; my family and friends refer to is as "my cry for help." But I digress...

There are many dealers who follow "If you slab it, they will come" business model. From time to time, sellers have used PSA to try to enhance the importance and worth of an item. PSA is apparently more than willing to support their wish. In general, because the value of old TV tickets is pretty low, there's not much downside to the practice.

But believe it or not, there are a few TV tickets that have been reprinted or counterfeited. Authentic tickets to the Beatles Ed Sullivan Show appearances have sold for over $10,000, and tickets for early Elvis Presley appearances aren't far behind. Tickets to I Love Lucy routinely sell for over $1,000 and as high as $5,000. There is a case to be made for a company to reliably authenticate such tickets. Case in point - the famous Elvis 1968 comeback TV special was cut from four different taping sessions, each will less than 200 audience members. A few years later, exact replicas of the tickets were printed as insert "extras" in an Elvis LP. These reprints are routinely sold on ebay as genuine to unsuspecting buyers. If memory serves, some of these have been slabbed. If you've bought one of these tickets, you're probably in for disappointment.

So the point is that the questions raised in previous posts are not hypothetical. In some cases, the false sense of security given by authentication isn't worth the plastic it's packed in unless the grading company does their homework.

For those who have made the effort to read this far, I reward you with a peek at my rare 1974 rookie season "Chico and the Man" ticket...and the ticket for the 1977 taping cancelled by the suicide of Freddie Prinze a few days earlier. Ain't Net54 grand?

Rick,
I love it! Merry Christmas.

[toybulldog]

Originally Posted by glynparson

It's not an autograph. Stick to ripping them on their atrocious job of boxing authentication, whereyou are right. as I think in this case your dead wrong on needing an exemplar to authenticate a ticket or card. You need knowledge of said item yes an exempkar in hand no.

I appreciate your comments and look forward to exposing other non-authentic PSA/DNA boxing autographs for you in the future.

Yours in signatures,
Mark O.

[sports-rings]

exact replicas of the tickets were printed as insert "extras" in an Elvis LP. These reprints are routinely sold on ebay as genuine to unsuspecting buyers. If memory serves, some of these have been slabbed.

Rick - thanks for an excellent post. I'm not surprised replicas were slabbed fake. Yet some on this post don't think PSA needs examplars to authenticate.

And while PSA does claim to offer opinions in their fine print, they market their services as authentication services, not opinion makers.

[Republicaninmass]

didnt they also slab Anna-Nicole Smiths Driver license?

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

didnt they also slab Anna-Nicole Smiths Driver license?

I think that was GAI

[drc]

I can say that when PSA first said they'd be slabbing tickets, I thought 'Hmm, a ticket can't be too hard to fake." And with baseball cards, PSA does use have other examples as they've likely handled and closely examined hundreds of 1963 Topps Mickey Mantles or 1983 OPCs. And with a unique 1880s chromolithographic picture trade card or newly discovered Cap Anson CDV you have a chance to really assess the age of the printing. A ticket is often simple text on cardstock.

So I wasn't saying skepticism over how PSA authenticates ticks was unreasonable. I myself wonder what is their procedure. But I'm not a buyer or seller of tickets, so it doesn't keep me up at night.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by republicaninmass

didnt they also slab anna-nicole smiths driver license?

How can they do that???? Did they have an exemplar????

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Oldtix

Like many of you, I get a thrill in holding an old ticket stub that allowed the original owner to witness a Babe Ruth home run or a Walter Johnson shutout. I get the same thrill from owning tickets to other events - big band concerts, Worlds Fairs, political speeches, and (you guessed it) radio and TV shows. I now own over 5,000 broadcast tickets. I refer to this as "my collection"; my family and friends refer to is as "my cry for help." But I digress...

There are many dealers who follow "If you slab it, they will come" business model. From time to time, sellers have used PSA to try to enhance the importance and worth of an item. PSA is apparently more than willing to support their wish. In general, because the value of old TV tickets is pretty low, there's not much downside to the practice.

But believe it or not, there are a few TV tickets that have been reprinted or counterfeited. Authentic tickets to the Beatles Ed Sullivan Show appearances have sold for over $10,000, and tickets for early Elvis Presley appearances aren't far behind. Tickets to I Love Lucy routinely sell for over $1,000 and as high as $5,000. There is a case to be made for a company to reliably authenticate such tickets. Case in point - the famous Elvis 1968 comeback TV special was cut from four different taping sessions, each will less than 200 audience members. A few years later, exact replicas of the tickets were printed as insert "extras" in an Elvis LP. These reprints are routinely sold on ebay as genuine to unsuspecting buyers. If memory serves, some of these have been slabbed. If you've bought one of these tickets, you're probably in for disappointment.

So the point is that the questions raised in previous posts are not hypothetical. In some cases, the false sense of security given by authentication isn't worth the plastic it's packed in unless the grading company does their homework.

For those who have made the effort to read this far, I reward you with a peek at my rare 1974 rookie season "Chico and the Man" ticket...and the ticket for the 1977 taping cancelled by the suicide of Freddie Prinze a few days earlier. Ain't Net54 grand?

Rick, you have provided me with yet another example of how great Net54 is!

Leon, I hope you understand how truly special this place is. It is an island of truth, knowledge, and information in the morass that is the interweb. (Or, if you prefer, a beacon on a rocky outcropping in the Bering Sea on the solstice)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Rick, you have provided me with yet another example of how great Net54 is!

Leon, I hope you understand how truly special this place is. It is an island of truth, knowledge, and information in the morass that is the interweb. (Or, if you prefer, a beacon on a rocky outcropping in the Bering Sea on the solstice)

I think Net54baseball is a special place. It is a place where anyone can say anything they want to as long as they put their name by it. I have seen some things, on this side of the board lately, that might get some folks very upset and I hope everyone has their ducks in a row. And I have a feeling they don't. It is worth mentioning that people can easily do screen shots and save things that WERE said, and then edited, and everyone is always legally liable for what they say. Overall I think PSA does a very good job on the card side of things, however, they as with any company, will make some mistakes. I always say if you aren't making ANY mistakes you aren't doing enough . As far as authenticating a ticket, I have no problem with it. They get paid to authenticate things so, if I were them and felt I could do it, I would. As to the autographs, I am completely leaving those alone as I don't know enough to say anything about them. I will bow out of most autograph and memorabilia authentication debates. Once again, if you are commenting on a company or person your full name needs to be in your post. If you don't then I will, per the rules. If that is not ok then your comments need to be edited out. Always the same rules here....... thanks much and happy collecting