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  #1  
Old 02-03-2019, 02:35 PM
Steve_NY Steve_NY is offline
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Default Debate Over PSA Grading of Rare Sports Packs

As I buy more rare sports packs from the 1940s and the 1950s, what bothers me most is that PSA continues to carry prices for all grades on rare packs that there is no proven history on their true value in the current era. It is misleading and there should be footnotes to indicate when the last sale occurred. There should be sufficient monitoring of PSA to make them accountable for their values.

Many of the 1940s and 1950s packs have not seen an auction on them In auction houses and eBay for over 20+ years. As most pack collectors know, packs have dried up and therefore prices should reflect that fact.

I believe in the system and think that for the most part, PSA is doing a fine job. But I would like to see the graded unopened pack mirroring the condition it has been graded before it was stuffed into the holder.

I find the best part of the pack NOT to be the cards it contains, but the pack itself in raw form, then of course the cards. I have seen what GAI and PSA have done to perfect packs. Last month, one of the largest auction houses auctioned a 52 Topps pack (I think it was graded a PSA 8 or something similar) and got somewhere near $50,000 for it. Magnify that pack and you will see a 1.5 inch tear in the wrapper on the rear of the pack. There are many, many such real-life examples. Just caring that it carries a PSA rating, when the current pack would no longer carry such a rating bothers me immensely.

What do collectors think about this situation? Wouldn't you want to know how PSA came up with their unopened pack prices -- especially for really rare packs? Maybe collectors don't care as it sets an artificially low price for them to buy from.

Let me know what you think?

Steve
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  #2  
Old 02-03-2019, 02:53 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
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Steve-- on the 52 pack do you think the buyer did not notice the condition issue you mention and just bid on the grade from PSA, and that the pack is not really worth what they paid for it ? I may be missing your point. I have a Topps pack run and several odd ball Topps packs back to 1951 but generally think the folks I bid against know exactly what they are doing and track whatever market results are out there, both as to scarcity and any prior prices paid

I have no experiences with 1940s material with the exception of 1948 Topps.

There was a recent thread speculating on what unopened pack might break the 100 K mark

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=263543

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 02-03-2019 at 03:36 PM.
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2019, 03:45 PM
Steve_NY Steve_NY is offline
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Al,

No I hope the bidder knew that the 52 pack had a tear and was bidding because of the grade that the pack received. I am just suggesting that collectors should take all of the factors into consideration when bidding on a pack. It is very easy to magnify the front and back of an auction item and then take any flaws into consideration upon bidding. But what happens if the buyer ever wants to sell that pack; just too many questions come to mind.

I promised you a picture of my 53 Bowman Color Baseball pack but never figured out how to do that. I am old school and have never put any of my items up on eBay or online auctions. I have 2 pictures of that pack on my cell phone -- so if you can give me step to step instructions on how to do that, I am hopeful that I can follow them. Let me know.

Best regards,

Steve
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:17 PM
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swarmee swarmee is offline
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In order for this post to make sense, you have to believe that anyone believes/trusts PSA SMR price guide prices. I don't think you have much to worry about, as their entire price guide is completely outdated and they should really do away with it.
Send your message to Steve Sloan, the new President of PSA along with my suggestion. I emailed him a couple of days ago and got a personal response back this morning. Pretty impressive response time.
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  #5  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:34 PM
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So your concern is that psa damages unopened packs during the grading process, or that the prices they set in their guide are inaccurate? I'd be much more concerned with the former personally.

The only pricing data I'm really concerned with is recent sales of comparable cards, or packs as the case may be. If a pack is so rare that there isn't any recent data how could any guide be accurate? Most knowledgeable card collectors don't put much stock into smr prices. I would imagine the same is true with packs, signed memorabilia, and many other collectibles.
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  #6  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:42 PM
Steve_NY Steve_NY is offline
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Yes, I have the following issues with PSA:

1 -- I have no clue about their pricing for cards as I have never graded anything, neither a card nor a pack, but my knowledge of unopened raw packs tells me that the entire packs price guide is questionable, as many of those early packs have not appeared in any auctions in 20+ years. It's great for collectors to imagine that they can buy at those prices, and that is why packs have dried up. Watch what happens if the real world prices ever get published.

2 -- I have NO issues with the actual grader who validates whether the pack has ever been opened or not. My issue is two-fold here: the packs are often forced into their holder by another individual which causes damages to the corners of the packs and the actual wrapper, and even if the pack makes it into the holder as graded, watch out for the extra space in there so the pack bounces around and develops damages. Then the pack looks nothing like the grade that it originally received.

Simply put, those are my main issues.

Steve
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  #7  
Old 02-05-2019, 12:49 PM
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jchcollins jchcollins is offline
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PSA putting values on their own slabs, whether they be graded cards or packs - smacks to me of a conflict of interest. As has already been pointed out, the SMR has been rather notoriously inaccurate for years now. I don't know why anyone uses it or the online "price guides" which still exist in many forms for free. My local dealer is a good guy and for the most part his prices are fair, but I cringe every time I ask about him taking $10 less or so for something in the vintage case and he has to go dial up Beckett on the inter-webs. I'm like you know that's mostly a work of fiction right? I digress...

For any type of slabs I would think VCP or even an eBay completed auction listing is going to be way more accuratce. Does VCP do pricing for graded packs?
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Last edited by jchcollins; 02-05-2019 at 04:14 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-05-2019, 01:11 PM
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I don't know much about the graded pack market, but I know enough not to trust a price and PSA's price guide. If I wanted a pack that hadn't been sold in 10 or 20 years privately, I would look at how much the price of other packs had changed over that same time period. I would also try to see if any packs with a similar population had sold recently so I could make a reasonable offer.

As a seller if anyone tries to quote me smr listings with their offer I usually just move on.
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2019, 07:19 PM
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Default Honestly

Almost all price guide pricing is not relevant to me wether the item exists in that grade or it’s theoretical.

Last edited by glynparson; 02-05-2019 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
In order for this post to make sense, you have to believe that anyone believes/trusts PSA SMR price guide prices. I don't think you have much to worry about, as their entire price guide is completely outdated and they should really do away with it.
Send your message to Steve Sloan, the new President of PSA along with my suggestion. I emailed him a couple of days ago and got a personal response back this morning. Pretty impressive response time.
SMR was DOA a long time ago.
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