Caramel card overprints are a disaster waiting to happen

[tbob]

With all the technology available now, I shudder to think what may happen in the future with the E94 and E98 (Old Put) overprints. Although I have collected my share and have some safely and hermetically sealed in SGC and PSA holders, I must admit a little trepidation about the possibility of forgeries of these 2 sets making it to the hobby. The Old Puts, in particular, because of their sketchy origins and crude overprint, really lend themselves to the possibility of forged overprintings.
The Patrick Chan incident certainly doesn't help relieve my apprehensions. Luckily, all known Old Puts except one (leon) have red backgrounds, so I hope if some cretin does decide to start manufacturing variations he will be oblivious of this fact and try them on oranges, greens and blues.
Perhaps the two lessons learned from the Chan incident are 1) collectors with knowledge can be dangerous if they turn to the dark side and 2) thank God there are guys like Wonka, Jim, Dan and Frank out there to ferret out these miscreants.

[barrysloate]

Bob- you have every reason to shudder and I maintain that what Mr. Chan has done is only the tip of the iceberg. We will see a lot more of this in the coming years.

[Leon]

I somewhat agree with you and somewhat don't. So far the 1 E94 fake overprint has been caught and now the fake Old Mill back stamp has been caught. If they are so easy, as a few people think, why are they getting caught? All that being said we are certainly seeing more people trying to fake them. I am not sure it's a lot different than all of the pre-war "mint" cards we see now as opposed to how many, I am told, there used to be. I am more concerned about high grade trims than I am fake overprints....but I have an insiders view of the overprints. Also, I believe there are at least 3 of the Blue background Old Put cards.....I have seen mine, one other, and someone on the board says they have either seen another or own one. Maybe the longer time goes by the more "provenance" will play a part in the overprints. I know that many E94 overprints have been found in original collections when there was 0 motive to fake them.... regards

[makersmarkambassador]

Can't remember what type or who was selling, but weren't we talking about a fake stamp on a card about an year ago. The seller had it listed on ebay for $10K at the time. I know the seller had a history on this board and everyone was giving him a hard time...

It's on the tip of my tounge, just can't remember.


**I remember now, it was Scott Elkins who had a United Cigar stamp on a T206. Sorry it didn't relate to the thread, but it does relate to fake stamps on cards...

[Exhibitman]

So far the really good forgeries have been of rubber stamps or single color inks. No one has been able to fake a 6-color chromolithographed card. If you are worried about the authenticity of overprints just say no.

[drdduet]

It's not so much the ones getting caught that worry me, it's the ones who may never get caught. Certainly, any new find of overprints warrants some degree of suspicion.

[Tim Kindler]

I tend to agree with some of the thoughts given thus far in this thread. While a single color stamp such as an Old Put seems like an easy item to forge, we saw in the case of the green background Jennings with a fake stamp that it was clearly easy to see that it was a fake. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but hopefully the grading companies are taking notice of the recent fakes that have come to life in recent times and are being a little more conscious of there efforts to detect these frauds.
(Oh, if they are grading fakes, can they be held liable for damages for not doing there job as an authenticator? This could be for a seperate thread)