Post a Stupid Question - Prewar 101

[frankbmd]

I'll bet that many of you have questions about vintage prewar cards that you are embarrassed to ask. This thread is for you. Ask a stupid question or answer someone else's stupid question. And you don't need to be a noob to participate.

If successful, this thread will be a treasure trove for new converts to prewar collecting. So without further ado, let's get started with the first question.

Were T202 Triple Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

[rdwyer]

Is this Wagner real?

[Rookiemonster]

Why is a grade on a card called a flip?

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Why is a grade on a card called a flip?

The flip, to my knowledge, refers to the little index card thingy at the top of the case. This includes everything. The grade, serial number, it's all there.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

The flip, to my knowledge, refers to the little index card thingy at the top of the case. This includes everything. The grade, serial number, it's all there.

I know what it is . I was asking why is it called a flip .

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

I know what it is . I was asking why is it called a flip .

Because one of the first employees at PSA was comedian Flip Wilson, and he was in charge of grading the first cards. The rest is history.

[bxb]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Why is a grade on a card called a flip?

I believe the term derives from removing the label and replacing it with a better one - like flipping a house for example. Adios.

[birdman42]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Why is a grade on a card called a flip?

AFAIK, the term goes back to the coin business. There are coin holders made of plastic (vinyl or PVC) that are 2x4 inches, with a pocket on each side. Typically a coin goes in one pocket and a card with description, grade, etc goes in the other pocket, then you fold the holder in half so it's 2x2. The holders are called "flips" because you can flip them open. Eventually the card itself came to be called a flip. By extension, anything with a coin's description and grade came to be a flip. And when card grading came into being, by the same company that was doing most of the coin grading (PCGS-->PSA), the analogy was obvious.

Bill

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by birdman42

AFAIK, the term goes back to the coin business. There are coin holders made of plastic (vinyl or PVC) that are 2x4 inches, with a pocket on each side. Typically a coin goes in one pocket and a card with description, grade, etc goes in the other pocket, then you fold the holder in half so it's 2x2. The holders are called "flips" because you can flip them open. Eventually the card itself came to be called a flip. By extension, anything with a coin's description and grade came to be a flip. And when card grading came into being, by the same company that was doing most of the coin grading (PCGS-->PSA), the analogy was obvious.



Bill

That is interesting, Bill. Thank you for posting.

[Touch'EmAll]

Here is a bonehead question. I won an eBay lot, however I forgot what I put for my max bid was (been out of town and busy). Now that I won the lot I cannot seem to go back and find out what my max bid was - any help? Thanks.

[Billy5858]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

That is interesting, Bill. Thank you for posting.

"AFAIK, the term goes back to the coin business. There are coin holders made of plastic (vinyl or PVC) that are 2x4 inches, with a pocket on each side. Typically a coin goes in one pocket and a card with description, grade, etc goes in the other pocket, then you fold the holder in half so it's 2x2. The holders are called "flips" because you can flip them open. Eventually the card itself came to be called a flip. By extension, anything with a coin's description and grade came to be a flip. And when card grading came into being, by the same company that was doing most of the coin grading (PCGS-->PSA), the analogy was obvious. Bill T."

+1 ..........Still kind of don't get it but Thanks for the info....interesting

[Mountaineer1999]

......

[ramram]

When you say "Pre War", which war are you talking about? There's been a bunch of them.

Rob M.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by ramram

When you say "Pre War", which war are you talking about? There's been a bunch of them.

Rob M.

When it comes to vintage bb cards, the term 'Prewar' is commonly known to refer to cards issued before the involvelment of the United States in World War 2. Thus the 1941 Play Ball, 1941 Double Play and 1941 Goudey all make the Prewar cut.

Brian (Great thread Frank)

[Brian Van Horn]

Thank you, Frank.

[pokerplyr80]

Who came up with the letters and numbers to identify prewar sets? M116, t206, e145, etc.

[brianp-beme]

One of my favorite sayings that I may have been the first in this entire world to coin..."Your stupid question is better than my stupid answer"

Brian

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by ramram

When you say "Pre War", which war are you talking about? There's been a bunch of them.

Rob M.

Rob, I believe the correct answer is the "War on Poverty".

[Jobu]

If Honus Wagner made ALC pull his T206 because he didn't want his image to help promote tobacco use in children, then why did the Flying Dutchman let this fly 40 years later?

[bxb]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Is this Wagner real?

If it is 3rd party graded, be assured it is real. Nor has it been trimmed.

[Kawika]

Did Shoeless Joe ever play in the majors without shoes? If he did, how did he avoid getting spiked?

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Did Shoeless Joe ever play in the majors without shoes? If he did, how did he avoid getting spiked?

He wore some white sox thingies that went half-way up his calves.
Several pictures of him in the T202's center panel.

[bxb]

Why are rookie cards more valuable than a player's other cards?

So what if it's his first card?

[Eric72]

Why do people pronounce Wagner's first name as HO-nuss, when there are many instances where he is referred to as Johannes, Hans, and John?

Most will disagree with me. However, I still contend that it should be pronounced HAH-nuss. To those who disagree....why?

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Did Shoeless Joe ever play in the majors without shoes? If he did, how did he avoid getting spiked?

Ah yes, a blast from the past.

[clydepepper]

Just how did Archie Graham know who Gil Hodges was?

[ASpaceman]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Did Shoeless Joe ever play in the majors without shoes? If he did, how did he avoid getting spiked?

LOL.....classic.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I'll bet that many of you have questions about vintage prewar cards that you are embarrassed to ask. This thread is for you. Ask a stupid question or answer someone else's stupid question. And you don't need to be a noob to participate.

If successful, this thread will be a treasure trove for new converts to prewar collecting. So without further ado, let's get started with the first question.

Were T202 Triple Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

Since I have never seen a looooong prewar cigarette, I presume they were folded, which begs the question are all high grade T202 cards creased?

[4815162342]

I have audibly laughed out loud at several posts in this thread already. Frank, you're the best as always. I don't know what's better: the War on Poverty, or Honus Wagner eating milk duds. Hilarious!

[Snapolit1]

Love a joke as much as the next guy, but a helpful answer might be more useful to a fellow collector than a joke.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Love a joke as much as the next guy, but a helpful answer might be more useful to a fellow collector than a joke.

Ok, fair point. Bryan answered your question about registration. What other questions do you have?

[KingFisk]

Why does one series of T206 say "350-460" subjects, rather than just 460? Like when it went from 150 to 350? Trying to keep collectors off balance ?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[mechanicalman]

I see a lot of T206 Polar Bears with tobacco staining. Is this a common trait or just a coincidence? Were they packed differently than other issues? Also, why are American Beauty borders so thin?

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I see a lot of T206 Polar Bears with tobacco staining. Is this a common trait or just a coincidence? Were they packed differently than other issues? Also, why are American Beauty borders so thin?

PB's were packaged in raw tobacco packs..in contact with the tobacco.
The others were in a side pocket of the cigarette pack.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by xplainer

PB's were packaged in raw tobacco packs..in contact with the tobacco.
The others were in a side pocket of the cigarette pack.

I knew there had to be a reason. Thank you for the explanation, xplainer.

[mechanicalman]

While we are still in a judgement-free zone, another question:

Why are Exhibits so relatively affordable? I assumed it was a pop issue, but consider this: PSA has graded 158 DiMaggio 39-46 Exhibits and over 1000 39 Play Ball DiMaggios. The SMR of a Play Ball PSA 5 is roughly 5x the price of the Exhibit. And in my opinion, the Exhibit is so much better looking (less toothy.) Any hypotheses are welcome.

[tbob]

What do you type in the search box to keep any T206s from coming up on ebay? I'm done with the set (minus the Big 4) and I'd like to not have to scroll through a zillion t206s constantly.
How do you keep a card seller who puts his entire inventory on ebay, every week, every year, with prices so high that no one buys them, from showing up in your search? What do you type in?

Thanks, I know this was covered in the past but I missed it.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by tbob

What do you type in the search box to keep any T206s from coming up on ebay? I'm done with the set (minus the Big 4) and I'd like to not have to scroll through a zillion t206s constantly.
How do you keep a card seller who puts his entire inventory on ebay, every week, every year, with prices so high that no one buys them, from showing up in your search? What do you type in?

Thanks, I know this was covered in the past but I missed it.

type in what you want to search for, then a space, then "-t206" or the minus sign and what ever you don't want to search for.

Brian, that is a great answer. At least I know they aren't really proofs, just called that. I can live with that.

[1880nonsports]

common to the issue, yes, the slide and shell was thinner........

[bravos4evr]

Aside from the "throwing" and "Portrait" T206 cards, are there any other old Rube Waddell cards out there? I can't seem to find even a picture of one.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I see a lot of T206 Polar Bears with tobacco staining. Is this a common trait or just a coincidence? Were they packed differently than other issues? Also, why are American Beauty borders so thin?

AB borders are thinner than other T206 because the cigarette packs that they came in were more narrow than the other packs.

[mooch]

what is a pre rookie card and who decides it?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Sean

AB borders are thinner than other T206 because the cigarette packs that they came in were more narrow than the other packs.

Thank you, Sean. Makes sense.

Makes me wonder if T206 PSA 8s also came in smaller packs.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Sean

AB borders are thinner than other T206 because the cigarette packs that they came in were more narrow than the other packs.

There is still some debate about the American Beauty cigarette packs, as it appears there were some that were possibly wider. The following thread from awhile back discusses some possibilities, and has images of American Beauty packs.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ghlight=beauty

Brian

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Also, why are American Beauty borders so thin?

Box was narrower

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I'll bet that many of you have questions about vintage prewar cards that you are embarrassed to ask. This thread is for you. Ask a stupid question or answer someone else's stupid question. And you don't need to be a noob to participate.

If successful, this thread will be a treasure trove for new converts to prewar collecting. So without further ado, let's get started with the first question.

Were T202 Triple Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Since I have never seen a looooong prewar cigarette, I presume they were folded, which begs the question are all high grade T202 cards creased as a result?

The premise of this thread was to post a stupid question that you would otherwise be embarrassed to post. The presumption was that most stupid questions could be answered by the "intelligentsia" on the board quite easily in what has been rightly referred to as a "Judgement-free zone".

The questions posed have been for the most part appropriate and many answers have been given.

So why in the hell after twelve hours has my initial question been ignored. Perhaps it wasn't so stupid after all. Maybe starting out with the triple folder question was a bit presumptuous on my part, so i will ask another related question.

Were T201 Double Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

and

Are all high grade T201 cards creased as a result of their packaging?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

The premise of this thread was to post a stupid question that you would otherwise be embarrassed to post. The presumption was that most stupid questions could be answered by the "intelligentsia" on the board quite easily in what has been rightly referred to as a "Judgement-free zone".

The questions posed have been for the most part appropriate and many answers have been given.

So why in the hell after twelve hours has my initial question been ignored. Perhaps it wasn't so stupid after all. Maybe starting out with the triple folder question was a bit presumptuous on my part, so i will ask another related question.

Were T201 Double Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

and

Are all high grade T201 cards creased as a result of their packaging?

Wish I could help you Frank...I can only answer slow-pitch softball questions.

Brian

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

The premise of this thread was to post a stupid question that you would otherwise be embarrassed to post. The presumption was that most stupid questions could be answered by the "intelligentsia" on the board quite easily in what has been rightly referred to as a "Judgement-free zone".

The questions posed have been for the most part appropriate and many answers have been given.

So why in the hell after twelve hours has my initial question been ignored. Perhaps it wasn't so stupid after all. Maybe starting out with the triple folder question was a bit presumptuous on my part, so i will ask another related question.

Were T201 Double Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

and

Are all high grade T201 cards creased as a result of their packaging?

Frank,

Mecca cigarettes were about as long as camel unfiltered. Do they still sell unfiltered cigarettes in the U. S.? But I digress... The cards came folded and that fold can greatly affect the quality of the card. Think chipping and wear on a typical card. I asked about this a few years back in a discussion with Earl, formerly the Customer Service guru at SGC (hey, Earl, what is up). His comments are what you would expect for a standard card with the caveat to pay attention to the condition of the fold.

As for the fold, it is quite evident on higher graded T 201's, but much cleaner, obviously created by machine in the print and coalation process, with a smoother surface. And yes, the condition of the back of the card, especially the fold, will have an impact on grading.

I have a question about T201. The cards were printed at two locations, factory 30 and 649. Which location represents a scarcer card, and why doesn't anyone collect by factory location on these cards like we see on T205, T206, T207?

[LuckyLarry]

I am lost when the terms "VCP Data" and "SMR" are used.

A quick google search reveals that SMR means Sports Market Report and appears to be a price guide published by PSA.

VCP (vintage card prices) their google search says they are "The authoritative baseball card value price guide" I think this is a subscription service.

The terms "VCP Data" and "SMR" mean nothing to me.

To establish pricing, I use the latest Standard Catalog, and past eBay sales. But these other "values" seem to be very important with some collectors.

Larry

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by LuckyLarry

I am lost when the terms "VCP Data" and "SMR" are used.

A quick google search reveals that SMR means Sports Market Report and appears to be a price guide published by PSA.

VCP (vintage card prices) their google search says they are "The authoritative baseball card value price guide" I think this is a subscription service.

The terms "VCP Data" and "SMR" mean nothing to me.

To establish pricing, I use the latest Standard Catalog, and past eBay sales. But these other "values" seem to be very important with some collectors.

Larry

Larry,

Like Jeopardy, in order to get one of my stupid answers, your stupid question must be in the form of a question.

Sincerely,

Alex Trebec