NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:01 PM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,643
Question Can someone tell me what is wrong with this Yount rookie PSA 9??

PWCC has three for auction. Two of them are at $860 and the third one is at $380. Can someone tell me what I am missing here? Is the third one a fake??

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:11 PM
MattyC's Avatar
MattyC MattyC is offline
M@tt.1ruLn1K
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,034
Default

The lowest priced one is the ugliest of the bunch, by far-- to my eyes. The centering is atrocious. The bottom one is my favorite, but each of us may have his own pick of that litter.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:16 PM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,643
Default

The lowest price one, the image doesn't appear to be as 'juiced up' as the other two. I wonder if a new holder and new label would do it justice. I see what you mean about the centering though.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:27 PM
MattyC's Avatar
MattyC MattyC is offline
M@tt.1ruLn1K
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,034
Default

That thing could have a label that says SUPER ULTRA MEGA MINT 12 on it in a holder sent back from the year 3000, and the centering would still make me pass on it
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:57 PM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,252
Default 75 Yount

I thought the top picture had the worst centering and the right edge was very rough. The top picture did not look like a "9". The other too are about even. I wonder if the actual color contrast in the middle card was an artifact of scanning or actually that much brighter.

Here are the cards in question.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Top.jpg (69.6 KB, 242 views)
File Type: jpg Middle.jpg (67.9 KB, 242 views)
File Type: jpg Bottom.jpg (68.6 KB, 242 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:59 PM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,643
Default

#2 has a juiced up appearance. #3 looks juiced up, but not as much as #2. #1 looks like it missed the 'juicing' altogether!!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-04-2014, 10:32 PM
JollyElm's Avatar
JollyElm JollyElm is offline
D@rrΣn Hu.ghΣs
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,016
Default

Just look at everything in the scans EXCEPT for the cards and you can see how photoshopped the middle one is. The red in the PSA label, alone, is way too bright and rich and the plastic case is so much sharper (and differently colored) than in the other two scans.
__________________
Check out my bucket(s). Virtually everything is available for trade:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706
http://s1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee404/JollyElm/
http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/elmjack44/library/

I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.
Casey Stengel
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-05-2014, 05:44 AM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,643
Default

On the middle card, did you also notice the frosting on the lower left corner, and to a lesser degree the upper right corner has a milder case of frosting. I wonder if someone attempted the old switcheroo on that card! Not saying it happened, because the frosting doesn't look to be large enough. Just noticed it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-05-2014, 08:33 AM
KCRfan1 KCRfan1 is offline
Lou Simcoe
L0u Sim.coe
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 1,480
Default

The upper right corner on the lesser expensive Yount is / appears to have slight rounding. The other two cards have very sharp corners. Not sure how the lesser expensive card received a 9 grade. Seems generous to me. Whether the cards are fake or not never entered my mind. It's an issue of the condition of the cards. Whoever buys that card is buying a holder and not the card. I can find an ungraded card in better condition for much less dollars than what they will spend for that " 9 ".
__________________
My new found obsession the t206!

Last edited by KCRfan1; 02-05-2014 at 08:34 AM. Reason: poor spelling
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-05-2014, 09:15 AM
MBMiller25's Avatar
MBMiller25 MBMiller25 is offline
Matt Miller
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlotte NC.
Posts: 356
Default

Im more curious to know why the images look so different on the same card. That is quite the contrast between all three cards. I wonder the decision is made to turn the "juice" on with some scans, and "juice" off with the others. I prefer the non "juice" scan the best, although I agree, its the least appealing of the three Younts.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-05-2014, 10:04 AM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,643
Default

....and the rounding of the corners versus the sharp corners is just subtle differences in the various generations of slabs. The non juiced card is in an older slab with an older style flip.

Last edited by bobbyw8469; 02-05-2014 at 10:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-05-2014, 10:22 AM
Prof_Plum Prof_Plum is offline
bi11h00d
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 196
Default

178 > 929 (centering) > 732 (centering and dk brown? registration)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-05-2014, 10:37 AM
CW's Avatar
CW CW is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,376
Default

I'm seeing cards with "juiced" scans littered throughout Brent's auctions. They stick out like a sore thumb. Very weird, somewhat unprofessional, and misleading to bidders.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-05-2014, 01:33 PM
glynparson's Avatar
glynparson glynparson is offline
Glyn Parson
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Blandon PA
Posts: 1,833
Default frosting

like that can easily happen on the old psa cases from storage or shipping. I have seen it happen many times over the years. could be from tamper but probably not.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-05-2014, 01:40 PM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,643
Default

The older case doesn't have frosting....it is the newer case with frosting.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-05-2014, 02:07 PM
a761506 a761506 is offline
Josh Alpert
member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 54
Default

The more important question is, how disappointed would you be as a consignor of either of the two lesser examples that are being cannibalized within the same auction? Heck, even the nicest card could be affected by this.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-05-2014, 02:31 PM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,643
Default

Yes! Most auction houses only run one of such a high grade, high profile card! PWCC has three! Unfortunately, when you get some of the high prices that PWCC attains, then consignors follow you like the Pied Piper of Hamlin. I for one like his auctions, I have consigned with him in the past, and will consign with him in the future. Some of the astronomical prices his items attain is a topic for another thread however.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-09-2014, 06:12 AM
glynparson's Avatar
glynparson glynparson is offline
Glyn Parson
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Blandon PA
Posts: 1,833
Default That is an older case

The newer ones fit in differently and do not have windows. In seam like the old. The new cases fit more like Beckett but thinner.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-09-2014, 02:26 PM
SMPEP SMPEP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 824
Default Wait, let me get this straight ...

... I am involved in a hobby where paying $860 for a Robin Yount RC makes sense???

There is NO mass produced Topps card from the 1970s that is worth $860 - no matter what player it is and no matter how nice the corners are.

Heck, I can get a 1923 W572 Babe Ruth, Ty cobb AND Walter Johnson for less than that combined in decent condition.

Every day I think it's time to sell everything I own because the collecting world has jumped the shark.

Patrick
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-09-2014, 02:35 PM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,643
Default

The ironic part? If the Yount rookie was only one grade higher, then instead of $860, you would be paying over $20,000+!!!! Now put that in your pipe and smoke it!!

Last edited by bobbyw8469; 02-09-2014 at 02:37 PM. Reason: corrected price!! $20,000 instead of $10,000!!!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-09-2014, 02:39 PM
SMPEP SMPEP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 824
Default And ....

... to provide an illustration of why this is so dumb ... Let's look at this Huggins & Scott auction:

http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=65097

Right now you can get a Yount AND Brett uncut rookie sheet for $475 (plus all the other cards). These are PSA 10s if you cut them out correctly (as many folks have done - including the only PSA 10 for the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle).

BUT the REAL value ... is the complete uncut sheet. Anyone can find a high grade card of any Topps player to buy ... How many uncut sheets are left out there?

There is ONE uncut 1952 Topps Mantle sheet out there. There are 2,000+ graded 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles (by PSA alone).

Does being #1 in the registry means so much to these folks?

Wow.
Patrick
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-14-2014, 02:36 PM
toppszl1's Avatar
toppszl1 toppszl1 is offline
Steve Sto.ugh
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 32
Default

The middle card looks juiced with photoshop at least 1000mg

The top card is to far to the right, it's a 7 on a good day but not a 9

The bottom card is the one to buy, less money and almost centered.

My .2 cents
__________________
Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone elses.Billy Wilder
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-14-2014, 03:35 PM
CW's Avatar
CW CW is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMPEP View Post
... to provide an illustration of why this is so dumb ... Let's look at this Huggins & Scott auction:

http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=65097

Right now you can get a Yount AND Brett uncut rookie sheet for $475 (plus all the other cards). These are PSA 10s if you cut them out correctly (as many folks have done - including the only PSA 10 for the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle).
The only problem with this is, assuming PSA is on top of their game, it can be difficult to get sheet-cut cards to pass PSA grading. A competent grader should be able to distinguish between an original factory cut and a modern man-made cut. Also, you need to consider surface flaws like wrinkles, print spots, fading, etc. The cut may be "gem mint" but the surfaces might by NM at best.

A big part of the mystique and value of these super high grade cards is that all the stars had to align at the factory in order for a gem mint card to exist. This is why a perfect card cut by hand from a sheet will never hold the same value as perfect card from the factory. I don't collect high grade cards as I find more bang for my buck in the midgrade range, but to each their own

Quote:
BUT the REAL value ... is the complete uncut sheet. Anyone can find a high grade card of any Topps player to buy ... How many uncut sheets are left out there?

There is ONE uncut 1952 Topps Mantle sheet out there. There are 2,000+ graded 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles (by PSA alone).
Much of the value of any item is created by supply and demand. Yes, the supply of vintage, original uncut sheets is very small, but not many collectors specialize in uncut sheets. This is why a PSA 9 Brett RC will cost more than the complete uncut sheet with a Brett -- supply and (more importantly) demand.

Quote:
Does being #1 in the registry means so much to these folks?

Wow.
Patrick
Yes, for some it is a competition. Different collectors will get excited or passionate over different things. The key is to collect what you like and not expend too much effort trying to legitimize or validate what others choose to collect. It's all about the love of the game ( registered trademark, Love of the Game Auctions ).
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-14-2014, 03:38 PM
MattyC's Avatar
MattyC MattyC is offline
M@tt.1ruLn1K
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMPEP View Post
... to provide an illustration of why this is so dumb ... Let's look at this Huggins & Scott auction:

http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=65097

Right now you can get a Yount AND Brett uncut rookie sheet for $475 (plus all the other cards). These are PSA 10s if you cut them out correctly (as many folks have done - including the only PSA 10 for the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle).

BUT the REAL value ... is the complete uncut sheet. Anyone can find a high grade card of any Topps player to buy ... How many uncut sheets are left out there?

There is ONE uncut 1952 Topps Mantle sheet out there. There are 2,000+ graded 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles (by PSA alone).

Does being #1 in the registry means so much to these folks?

Wow.
Patrick
I thought there were three 10s of the 52 Mick, and closer to 1200 total graded by PSA. Will have to check the numbers, maybe I'm wrong.

Just because something is rare, like a 52 sheet with the Mantle on it, doesn't necessarily mean that it is desired by as many collectors as the card. I admire sheets for their aesthetic appeal, and they are cool pieces framed. Point is, people collect what they like. If that's a sheet, great. If it's a single, cool. But demand plays a great deal in value, too, and there are far more card collectors than sheet collectors out there. And then the relationship between attractive examples of an in-demand card results in the prices we are seeing. As opposed to an item that may be very rare, but is not the object of as much desire and competition. Of course, then you get cards like a Frederick Foto Ruth that is both wanted by many AND exceedingly rare.

What a man spends his money on is his business. I certainly wouldn't let other people's expenditures influence me selling pieces I like, as was intimated in an earlier post.

I personally see no reason to spend 20k on a Yount 10 when I can have one for several hundred that looks the same to me. But if some guy with the money feels he wants or needs that "10" for whatever reason, hey, it's his money. Now if we are talking about an overgraded 10 that is not GEM MT, then I personally think it's asinine and will happily debate that with the buyer of any overgraded card if it is put in my face expecting adoration-- but in the end if someone is happy and not looking to debate card versus holder, let'em be happy. But when it comes up for auction, this guy won't be bidding.

With respect to the assertion that a card from the 70s is not "worth" $860, the simple fact is that someone paid that amount for a Yount 9, and an accurately graded 9 will fetch the same or more these days. So whether all of us would buy it or not is irrelevant, since the fact is that it is indeed "worth" that.

Overall, I think no two collectors hold the same exact cards on their personal pedestal, so it should come as no surprise that some people spend on something another might never be inclined to look at, let alone buy. It's a big hobby and there are so many different types of collectors. If everyone collected and valued the exact same items, it would be rather boring. In fact, many of my favorite cards today are cards other collectors put me on to. Similarly, we may highly value and spend on cards today that we might not like so much in the future. Today's registry collector spending money on PSA 10 commons might turn around and call that insanity tomorrow. Today's guy who loathes set building and commons might find himself loving it in ten years. It's a big collecting world out there. There will always be other guys who like what another likes, and guys who prefer other stuff. I do think, both consciously and subconsciously, many collectors want as many others as possible out there to desire what they desire, and that plays into much of the discourse on forums like this.

When it comes to statements like, "BUT the REAL value ... is the complete uncut sheet," we can all make our compelling cases for what we think is the most desirable and therefore valuable item out there-- but it's all in the eye of the beholder, and what he wants for his collection.

Last edited by MattyC; 02-14-2014 at 03:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-14-2014, 03:43 PM
MattyC's Avatar
MattyC MattyC is offline
M@tt.1ruLn1K
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,034
Default

Ah, CW-- as usual I see we post so many of the exact same sentiments! Funny.

Best,

Matt
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yount Rookie Variation? Gr8Beldini Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 7 11-21-2013 08:12 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:31 PM.


ebay GSB